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Thread: Pergola addition

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Pergola addition

    Hi everyone - starting a thread over here about the "project AFTER the project!" We're mid-reno on our pool, and will be DIYing a large pergola after our concrete stamped deck is poured. We built a pergola at our old house about 10 years ago, calling on every brother-in-law and spare relative we could find, and LOVED the results. We've been in our new house about two-and-a-half years, and we miss that pergola every time we go in our backyard - the pool is great and all, but it's no pergola!

    Our plan is to have the PB's crew set our 8x8 posts and we'll take it from there. Originally, we wanted to cantilever a pergola at one end of our pool, but have decided that it doesn't provide that "cozy" feeling we loved so much before. We want it to feel like an outdoor room. My DH knows I am a highly visual person, and has toiled away in Google Sketchup to give me these renderings of my various ideas to help us refine our design. All will be based on the same plan we used for our old pergola, which was a schematic from a Family Handyman magazine, I believe. New design is approximately 32'x8'x8'. Here come the pics!





    Mocking it up with conduit:



    First design attempt - this one is scrapped but it looks cool!


    My cantilever inspiration for my first design - note the close spacing of the posts and bracing (including wires run down the backs of posts) to distribute the load. Ultimately, we worried we couldn't engineer the deep cantilever we wanted to make that "enclosed" roof feeling, so we've gone to a traditional "four post" (actually six) design.


    Our first pergola (8x16x 9 or 10 feet tall - our foundation was raised and this got the roof up over the french doors). We are beefing up the posts from 6x6 to 8x8 for the new pergola, since it is so much bigger I think it will look more proportional:





    The plan we loosely followed:




    We plan to build entirely of cedar (our last was a combo of PT and cedar due to our newlywed budget), and our PB is encouraging us to use Simpson-type anchors to bold the posts to the concrete deck rather than setting the posts in the concrete. Anyone have experience with this? I think I will need to add some corbels/brackets/knee bracing to the upper part of the structure to stiffen it if we do not set the posts in the concrete, which I don't mind. I just want it to be really sturdy and last a long time, not a creaky wimpy mess. We're in Oklahoma, we get a LOT of wind. PB says he does all his pergolas with the metal plate anchors and it keeps the posts from rotting (obviously a plus).
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Putting wood into concrete is generally a bad idea. The Simpson ties are to code should work fine.

    I think we are eventually going to try to build one of these as well.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Here is what our arbor looks like. The guys that built it added extra cedar trim to the 6x6 posts. We thought about adding stone to the lower 3' of the posts, but for now we like the way it turned out.

    Finally completed March 2014
    IG 27,300 gal 35'x16' 3.5'/5.5'/8' diving pool, Pentair Intellichlor IC40, De FNS 60, 3HP Intelliflo VF pump, Easy Touch 4, Kreapy Krauly Platnium, 3/4 Hp booster pump, raised stone wall w/ 2 stone scuppers, Stonescapes aqua blue mini pebble plaster

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Very very nice 737mech ! 👍
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Our pergola sits on knife plates. They use Hilti anchors into the concrete and the posts just sit on them, they go up into the post about 4 inches. Our pergola has knee braces (like on your cantilever pictures), they help considerably with wind resistance and racking loads.

    My question is about Google Sketchup, is this a free thing or do you have to buy it? Can you do floor plans in it? I suppose I can google it (ha!) but I thought I would ask!
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Thanks, Blaine. I'll look into those. I am pretty sure Google Sketchup is free, and I know floor plans can be done in it because DH has done ours! When we first looked at purchasing this house, he started working with it and has tweaked things ever since. He's got a sketch of the interior of our whole house, one of our complete lot, and these of the pool and yard. He does others (or maybe they are linked with the main floor plan? I don't know the details) for various projects I dream up. We've been working on remodeling and future remodeling plans, and he's done about a zillion different possible master bath layouts, based on my various whims.

    I think these may somehow all be linked together, because you can tell on the most current version of our pergola sketch (the top one) you can actually see in the windows of the downstairs - he can click around and suddenly we are looking at the floor plan of our living room. Initial versions of the pergola didn't show that, just blank windows, so I know he plays with it on occasion. I love that he can zoom in and out to birds eye and street level view of our yard. That's been super helpful as we work on this design.
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Sketchup is free. Once you get working in it, the sky is the limit. It may not be as simple to use as some other design tools. I like it because I'm basically building my projects piece-by-piece in software before I get to work. The longer I take to draw it out, the more minor flaws I spot. Great tool!

    Ditto on the simpson ties. I used these anchor bolts to lock them down to existing patio ...

    http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ma...FcURMwodTnQAtg

    I ran the thin 1.5's x 1.5's across the top to help solidify the top. Time consuming to rip all those, but I really like the look.

    Plenty of friends/guest ask why I built a patio cover that won't keep you dry ... I've given up trying to explain ... We love hanging out under these things also!

    20120202_071844.jpg

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Imperator, that is a gorgeous pergola! Awesome, unique design.
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    oh wow, Imperator, that's really cool.

    Looks like we may add a pergola to our list of things to get. Our verticals will be fluted alum. columns to match the rest of the house.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
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    Re: Pergola addition

    That is very nice. 👍
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Reviving this thread as we began construction on our pergola this weekend and hit a few snags I am hoping some more experienced members can help with. 1st snag - our concrete deck is sloped for drainage, a pretty fair amount. We are using USP 6x6 post anchors (these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YRFWA/...A&linkCode=asn) per the recommendation at our lumber yard, as well as very similar anchor bolts as were linked in the above posts, like this: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ma...FcURMwodTnQAtg

    The slope of the concrete means the bases are not level. Thus, putting the post into the base means the post is not level and is very difficult to plumb. We've thought about shimming with something (galvanized washers, wood shims, cedar shims), or cutting the posts off if we can find a way to accurately transcribe the odd concrete angle to the post itself. Any ideas?

    2nd snag - the fourth base we anchored to the concrete didn't seem to "grab" as well as the first three. We kept tightening and tightening the nut, and the screw just came further and further out of the concrete (to the point that the post won't even sit on the base plate, the screw will have to go up INTO the post after we drill it out or soemthing). Does this mean that anchor is toast? I feel like it isn't going to hold.

    3rd snag - overall, the posts seem so wobbly, I can't believe this will hold up long term. We added one cross brace to the first two posts and got them somewhat stablized, and know they should grow more stable as we build the rest of the overhead structure. The third post, I couldn't even leave it. I was afraid it would fall over (the wind had picked up, too). We ended up taking it down when we couldn't figure out if the fourth post anchor was even going in (see 2nd snag above) because our plan was to get the third and fourth posts braced/connected to each other by their overhead, then connect 1&2 to 3&4.

    So what we had was:
    x(1) =====no connection yet ======= x(4 - messed up concrete anchor so didn't put in post)
    |
    |
    |
    x(2) ====no connection yet ======== x(3 - post so wobbly I couldn't leave it)
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Here are pics of 2 pergolas we had built in our backyard. The square one was purchased online and delivered as a kit, cedar. The oddly shaped one is cedar and treated pine. Both were installed directly into concrete footings before the deck was poured. No problems there...and sturdy as heck. An 8 foot pergola, assuming the sun crosses perpindeicular to the long access of the pergola will have a pretty small footprint, the wider the better. We also spaced our top slats closer for more shade. Have been very happy with both. I would post pics but I've exceeded my quota.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...s?hilit=corpus

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here are pics of 2 pergolas we had built in our backyard. The square one was purchased online and delivered as a kit, cedar. The oddly shaped one is cedar and treated pine. Both were installed directly into concrete footings before the deck was poured. No problems there...and sturdy as heck. An 8 foot pergola, assuming the sun crosses perpindeicular to the long access of the pergola will have a pretty small footprint, the wider the better. We also spaced our top slats closer for more shade. Have been very happy with both. I would post pics but I've exceeded my quota.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/54357-Details-Details-Details?hilit=corpus

    Do you have an updated pic of the install process? Maybe easier to suggest a fix.
    15 K gal/gunnite, 600 gal attached SPA, Hayward: ProLogic, ColorLogic LED, Super II pumps, 400k BTU heater, StarClear cartridge filter for, SwimClear cartridge filter . Pentaire: booster

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/detai...l?hilit=corpus

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Beautiful pergolas, savela! You're completely right, I will get some pics up. Even as I was trying to figure out how to type in with the x's and equal signs, I was thinking "this is dumb!" but it was getting dark out and so I rushed it. I am also going to visit with the really helpful guy at the lumberyard too, and pick his brain. Our last resort will be cutting through my beautiful new deck to set posts in the ground (replacing the 8 footers we have with 12 footers so we can bury them) but might have to rework configuration due to electrical and plumbing lines running under the deck. Really wishing I had trusted my gut to set posts in ground before the deck pour rather than listening to PB. He was supposed to set these posts for us but that is not going to happen at this point.
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Water under the bridge. There's a solution to every problem. You'll be glad you're making the extra effort in the not too distant future!
    15 K gal/gunnite, 600 gal attached SPA, Hayward: ProLogic, ColorLogic LED, Super II pumps, 400k BTU heater, StarClear cartridge filter for, SwimClear cartridge filter . Pentaire: booster

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/detai...l?hilit=corpus

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    Re: Pergola addition

    I had researched several of the online sellers of pergola kits. Last summer my wife and I distributed 20 cubic yards of river rock around the pool area. We decided that we did not have the time or energy to get involved with assembling a pergola. So, we hired a local guy who came highly recommended to build a pergola on the patio that overlooks our pool. The patio does have a slight slope and he cut the posts to compensate for the slope. We paid about the same as the online kits for this fully assembled pergola. I bought the LED lights from partylights.com and installed them. Next up is to install speakers...FedEx delivered them last week.

    IMG_1389.jpg

    We also decided that having our pool equipment sitting out in the open was rather unsightly, and it was baking in the sun every day. We hired the same guy to build this pergola over the equipment pad. It was a good thing I took lots of pictures during the pool build so I could tell them where it was safe to put the footers for the posts.

    IMG_1778 smaller.jpg
    Vince L

    16' x 37' fiberglass pool, 8' fiberglass spa, Hayward Swimclear C3030 filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Goldline Pro Logic PL-PS-8, Goldline SWCG, Goldline Sense & Dispense pH control, Fiberstars LED's in pool & spa, AquaCal SQ175R heat pump, SR Smith Typhoon slide, Polaris 9300xi robotic cleaner, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Quote Originally Posted by MiaOKC View Post
    Reviving this thread as we began construction on our pergola this weekend and hit a few snags I am hoping some more experienced members can help with. 1st snag - our concrete deck is sloped for drainage, a pretty fair amount. We are using USP 6x6 post anchors (these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YRFWA/...A&linkCode=asn) per the recommendation at our lumber yard, as well as very similar anchor bolts as were linked in the above posts, like this: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ma...FcURMwodTnQAtg

    The slope of the concrete means the bases are not level. Thus, putting the post into the base means the post is not level and is very difficult to plumb. We've thought about shimming with something (galvanized washers, wood shims, cedar shims), or cutting the posts off if we can find a way to accurately transcribe the odd concrete angle to the post itself. Any ideas?

    2nd snag - the fourth base we anchored to the concrete didn't seem to "grab" as well as the first three. We kept tightening and tightening the nut, and the screw just came further and further out of the concrete (to the point that the post won't even sit on the base plate, the screw will have to go up INTO the post after we drill it out or soemthing). Does this mean that anchor is toast? I feel like it isn't going to hold.

    3rd snag - overall, the posts seem so wobbly, I can't believe this will hold up long term. We added one cross brace to the first two posts and got them somewhat stablized, and know they should grow more stable as we build the rest of the overhead structure. The third post, I couldn't even leave it. I was afraid it would fall over (the wind had picked up, too). We ended up taking it down when we couldn't figure out if the fourth post anchor was even going in (see 2nd snag above) because our plan was to get the third and fourth posts braced/connected to each other by their overhead, then connect 1&2 to 3&4.

    So what we had was:
    x(1) =====no connection yet ======= x(4 - messed up concrete anchor so didn't put in post)
    |
    |
    |
    x(2) ====no connection yet ======== x(3 - post so wobbly I couldn't leave it)

    Please keep in mind that I'm not a contractor so these are DIY'er suggestions.

    1st snag - I had to shim a few of my 8x8 bases. I used a couple of galvanized ties (they are about 2"x8") and fit perfectly for my posts. You can find a pretty good selection of these things in the decking section of the big box stores. I used some liquid nails to keep the ties together and fixed in place until I ratcheted down the base. Might not be a pro solution but it definitely worked and you cant see them now that it's all in place. I would not recommend using any type of wood shim. It'll degrade over time. I also think it would be better to have a level base as opposed to cutting the post to fit.

    2nd snag - can it be disassembled with new anchor bolt in place without too much difficulty? A solid base would be best, and drilling into the bottom of your post to accommodate the bolt sounds like a pain.

    3rd snag - I can't recall exactly, but I'm pretty sure I remember having to brace all the posts until the whole unit was assembled. It worked out exactly like you're thinking. Each time you add more to the structure up top, it gets more rigid and fixed in place. I notched all the beams and pergola boards and that helped too.

    I never assumed the base would function like a post set in concrete. For me, it's main role was to keep a leg from kicking out if something crazy were to happen (riding lawnmower collision, whatever). There's no way that any device or brace could keep the post stiff in place if it's just attached at the end (free standing). Too much weight involved.

    Another way of thinking of it is comparing your build to a box. A box has strength/support in several directions and it's easy to make it strong. You're building a box without the bottom cross beams ... a table. You have to do something to make it strong. Some people do diagonal members right at the top for added strength. The base helps out with some of that rigidity at the bottom.

    hth ... good luck

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Vince, that pergola is beautiful! The highly recommended local place is actually a partner with our PB, and due to our experiences with him I feel like I should steer very wide of that group. I've gotten another name from a neighbor of someone that does construction, but not necessarily outdoor structures like this so that would be kind of a shot in the dark. If we cannot resolve on our own, we will definitely find some kind of professional help, hopefully outdoor-structure specific.

    Imperator, that definitely helps. I will check into shimming options with either the big box or the lumberyard when I visit with that guy, and ask about the difficulty we are having with that one bolt to see if it can be backed out or what. I will copy your message about bracing to DH and hopefully that will give us the confidence to move forward and see where we end up.

    Here are a few pics that illustrate the pretty good slope we are working with (very obvious by looking at the level crossbeam and the height difference in the tops of the two posts). Another to show the exact anchors (the piece on the left is the stand-off plate and it sits in the base to keep the post from touching the ground, and one of the basic frame shape of what we're planning.





    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Wow! That is a significant slope. My shims corrected a 1/8" problem, you might be beyond just shimming. Take a level and place it on top of one of a base. Put a temp shim (any material) under the base to make it level. Then measure the distance required for shimming. If it's too high, you'll need to do something other than what I did. See if your lumberyard people have any suggestions.

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    MiaOKC's Avatar
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    Re: Pergola addition

    Yes it is! It turns out, our pool was constructed in the 70s with a bond beam significantly out of level, almost 2 inches from one side to the other (about 37 feet) and the waterline tile had been added at an angle to compensate. Plus one skimmer sat at a very different height. So, to correct that, PB built up the low side the nearly 2 inches, so we have level waterline tile and skimmers, but the result was the patio had to have a pretty good slope to meet up with the existing driveway. It is not quite so steep at the other end of the planned pergola (about where I was standing to get the picture), since our yard slopes both front to back as well as side to side. The house is downhill a slight bit on the north and south axis from the pool, and the garage (visible just outside the wrought iron fence) is a also downhill N to S and a bit downhill east to west. So the posts for the pergola you see are the most dramatically unlevel. The other pairs should be less and less so.
    35,000 gallon gunite pool, semi-T-shaped, 29x15 shallow end and 16x22 deep end, built in the mid-1970s and renovated 2013-2014 // Polaris 9300 Sport robotic cleaner // Taylor K-2006 ... Learning as we go and so grateful to everyone here for their help! Our reno thread

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    Re: Pergola addition

    Its looking so good Mia... I'm pulling up a chair...
    Intex Rectangle 18 x 9 x 52', 4544 gallon (18000 litres), 0.75 hp pool pump, 100 sqft Zodiac Titan Cartridge Filter - 40mm, Stenner Peristaltic Pump chlorine injection system, Intex Over The Wall Skimmer, Intex Fittings with 40mm plumbing Lil Patch Of Heaven. Build/Construction http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...lice-of-heaven

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