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Thread: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

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    Seanhan's Avatar
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    Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    I have lot's of air getting in the pump when it on Pool mode.
    When i turn the valves over to SPA mode all the air goes away and the pump runs quite with maybe only 1 little bubble visable.
    The second i turn the section side back to pool bubbles lots of air and the pump kinda surges .
    I replaced the entire suction side (above ground level ) jandy valves pipe and fittings going into the pump.
    can't figure it out ??? Could it be a broken suction line below the ground !!!!
    any Ideas !!! Im stuck !!!
    thanks..
    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    It is almost NEVER the underground piping. http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...side-air-leaks
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Seanhan's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    could it be a obstruction in the suction line ?? The water seems to move well through the skimmer ??
    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    As one of those that has experienced a below ground suction side leak, I can say they do happen and are not fun. I would suggest pressure testing the line as being the next reasonable step.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Seanhan's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Do i need a pro for that ? Do the blow air through the line or pull vacumm ?
    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    As one of those that has experienced a below ground suction side leak, I can say they do happen and are not fun. I would suggest pressure testing the line as being the next reasonable step.
    The leak can certainly be underground piping but the chances are quite remote and I would begin to test for that after I had thoroughly exhausted other possibilities.

    We've had a couple of instances of that reported over the last 6 or so years but hundreds if not thousands of suction side leaks occurring above ground.

    You must get VERY systematic when tracking a suction leak and it sounds like you are stabbing at guesses.

    A pic of your equipment pad and piping may help if you give us a good perspective.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Pics
    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Trying the pics again

    - - - Updated - - -

    Try again
    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Again !!!!







    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Spraying shaving cream on suspected joints while the pump is running is a good approach. Shaving cream will be sucked into any leak. Running a garden hose over suspect connections also works, you watch to see if the bubbles in the pump strainer basket disappear while running water over an area, if so that is your leak.

    Also, always remember to check for more obvious things first. Low water levels in the pool can allow the skimmers to draw air down a vortex.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    I tried the water thing. What i can't figure out is that the bubbles and turbalance go away when i move the suction side jandy over to spa.
    That elimanates all the above ground plumbing right ?

    I also replaced and lubbed the pump oring.








    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Yes it does eliminate everything that the pool and spa have in common (jandy valve, pump seals, etc). Sounds like you may have a clog or something simple like the skimmer weir being stuck up, preventing water from flowing into the skimmmer. Do you have a vacuum in the pool, or just the skimmer? did this happen after a storm when a lot of debris got in the pool? Sometimes when lines are clogged, you can let the pump get going on the spa and then quickly turn the valve over to the pool and that can kind of shake the clog loose.

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    I checked the weir , water level, all ok , iam going to take the skimmer valve out and look for obstructions


    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Probably not your problem, but I had a suction side leak caused by a very bad pipe connection at the skimmer itself, underground. It had been there for some time and the leak was intermittent, since the void it had formed would fill with water, then when the pump started it slowly sucked the water out, then air would show in the return jets. I was re plumbing the pool anyway, so it was a good find.
    41k litre (11k gal) shotcrete in ground pool, Hayward super 2, Davey Monarch 28, zodiac SWCG
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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanhan View Post
    I checked the weir , water level, all ok , iam going to take the skimmer valve out and look for obstructions


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Do you have a skimmer float valve? Maybe take that out and see if its causing the problem. In my limited experience, suction side leaks are almost always something simple.
    Walnut Creek, CA. 18k gallon Pebble Sheen + 1.5k gallon IG spa, 1.5hp whisperflo main pump, Pentair clean and clear 420, Intellichlor IC20, Polaris 360 w/booster,Jandy lite 2 natural gas, plus solar with Heliomatic 5000 controller and 3/4 hp booster

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Another thought, just in case you have a blockage in the line between the skimmer and the pump. Trying blasitng the line with a drain bladder. for easy access you can remove the top of the jandy valve and stuff the bladder down it. And/or you can run it up the skimmer side.
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraf...0332/100586170
    Walnut Creek, CA. 18k gallon Pebble Sheen + 1.5k gallon IG spa, 1.5hp whisperflo main pump, Pentair clean and clear 420, Intellichlor IC20, Polaris 360 w/booster,Jandy lite 2 natural gas, plus solar with Heliomatic 5000 controller and 3/4 hp booster

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    It just occurred to me that you have never given us any psi numbers.

    What is your psi with no bubbles?

    Psi with bubble?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Psi is normal in spa mode 15 psi, in pool mode it goes between 10-15 up and down contstantly.
    I also noticed today that i might be loosing too much water... Maybe a inch in 3. Days !!!
    It's going to warm up this weekend to 70 so i will be out there all day with the hose and water-jet and shop vac etc.
    Will also take the skimmer valve out , and the cover off the suction side Jandy valve to get the water-jet into the suction line for the pool.




    Sean Hannon
    30,000 Gallons gunite pool Coated by Fibertech
    Hayward Pro Grid 72 / Hayward multiport
    Circupool V3 VS pump
    CirCupool SWG RJ 60, 400.000 btu raypak , Built in SPA

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Those numbers makes sense.

    If your psi fluctuation is somewhat rhythmical, that often indicates your pool water level is too low and you are sucking air through the skimmer. Not saying that IS the cause....just mentioning it.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Suction side air leak nightmare !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanhan View Post
    Psi is normal in spa mode 15 psi, in pool mode it goes between 10-15 up and down contstantly.
    I also noticed today that i might be loosing too much water... Maybe a inch in 3. Days !!!
    It's going to warm up this weekend to 70 so i will be out there all day with the hose and water-jet and shop vac etc.
    Will also take the skimmer valve out , and the cover off the suction side Jandy valve to get the water-jet into the suction line for the pool



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    That up and down fluctuation sounds almost like there is a wave action that sort of fills the skimmer and then starves it and then repeats. Which is what I have experienced with a water level being too low. I know you have checked both of these items but another simple thing to do would be to jack the water level waaaay up and get somewhere where you can make sure the weir door is staying open. It seems like a blockage in the skimmer line or leaks in the plumbing would just give you low pressure period, no flux. Only trying to help, i have suffered much with low pressure and it was ALWAYS the skimmer being starved and usually by a weir door problem.
    Walnut Creek, CA. 18k gallon Pebble Sheen + 1.5k gallon IG spa, 1.5hp whisperflo main pump, Pentair clean and clear 420, Intellichlor IC20, Polaris 360 w/booster,Jandy lite 2 natural gas, plus solar with Heliomatic 5000 controller and 3/4 hp booster

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