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Thread: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

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    New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Hi Everyone,
    I bought the house last month, and have been busy fixing other things up. Now it's pools turn and hopefully not too late! I've been reading the posts here and have learnt a lot, thanks.
    I've ordered my K-2006 test kit and should have it next week. In the mean time, had my pool's water tested at Leslie's, and below is the result:
    I dumped 2/3 Gal Liquid Chlorine 10% ( label!) 3 days ago as nothing had been done for a while. Pool has a feeder and was being maintained by a service company, so I assume they used pucks.
    FAC: 3
    TAC: 3
    CH: 550
    CYA: 150
    TA: 80
    PH: 7.6
    Copper:0
    Iron: 0
    TDS: 0
    Water temp:55, tried to get the sample to the shop in less than 30min. Water looks OK, pool walls feel coarse and not slippery. There are some signs of brown stain, but I think they were there when we moved in.
    I'm planning to switch to SWG soon, as I want to spend a bit less time on maintenance.
    When I use the calculator, it suggest that I should replace 45% of the water, and add a bottle of bleach to take the FC level to 11-18! I guess due to high CYA.
    So question is what should be my course of actions? Should I wait for my test kit, test, and then act? Or start right away? Do I need to dump more liquid Chlorine right away to avoid algae. In either case what should be the sequence? Get the SWG system and then act? Sorry for the long list of questions, but I'm trying to do it right first time!

    Thanks.
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    I would wait, this time of year it is unlikely anything will start growing in the pool in the few days before your test arrives, we have more cold weather on the way, and it will be a while before swim season is here. It looks like you have substantial water replacement coming up in the near future with those high CYA values, but we never like to trust pool store testing around here, way too many horror stories of them getting the numbers VERY wrong.

    Ike
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Test first. Pool store results tend to be variable, to say the least. Be sure to check out http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...Kit-Directions to see the alternate directions for really high CH and CYA.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Welcome to TFP!
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Welcome to TFP! I'd hold off on switching to SWG, especially if you have any natural rock in or around the pool (Texas Flagstone and Moss rock are really soft and from my experience, don't do well with SWG). Clorox and HCl are really a great route and cheap!
    Dave My Pool Build, ODK Build
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Alright, thanks guys for prompt response. How about back washing the filter now and wait for the rain expected in the next few days to help! Although I need to figure out how to back wash and check if the pool has auto-fill feature. Don't even know where to look yet!
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Welcome to TFP !!

    Another reason to hold off on the SWG is to learn about the water chemistry and using your test kit to keep all your parameters in range. I would manually add bleach until you get the hang of things.

    A SWG is not a set it and forget it type of thing. Your water chemistry will need to be adjusted for it. You'll have to get the pump run time figured out so you maintain proper FC levels. You will still have to test for FC and keep on eye on the PH level due the fact that SWG's tend to make the PH level increase. The PH level is just as important as the FC level.

    I'm just suggesting you do some reading in pool school to get a good knowledge base on things.

    Any questions you have don't hesitate to ask.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    I manually dosed for about 3 months, but love the convenience of a SWCG. I say go for it and don't look back. LOL
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    I didn't say not to go for it. Seems to be first pool and to manually dose until he gets the hang of things might be ok.

    Just a thought.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Welcome to the forum.

    SWGs are trouble free, not maintenance free. Just know that whether you use a SWG or pour bleach in yourself, you need to understand the underlying chemistry in order to not have problems going forward.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    OK, thanks again for the comments. Point taken, I will have to get my head around the subject first before moving to SWG. I used to spend hours in chemistry lab, but that is 20 years ago (God!!! time flies!), so shouldn't be that difficult to pick things back up.
    The main reason to go for SWG is that we usually go for 2-3 weeks holidays in summer, so was hoping that I could set everything before we go and let the system do the job while away!
    Apart from getting familiar with pool chemistry, is there anything that I need to take into account before spending money on SWG? I don't have natural rocks around the pool as pointed out by Pragmatic.
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    With your background this stuff should come easily for you. Just keep studying, and ask questions if you need too. SWG is optional but they can be a very nice feature.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Quote Originally Posted by makhmal View Post
    OK, thanks again for the comments. Point taken, I will have to get my head around the subject first before moving to SWG. I used to spend hours in chemistry lab, but that is 20 years ago (God!!! time flies!), so shouldn't be that difficult to pick things back up.
    The main reason to go for SWG is that we usually go for 2-3 weeks holidays in summer, so was hoping that I could set everything before we go and let the system do the job while away!
    Apart from getting familiar with pool chemistry, is there anything that I need to take into account before spending money on SWG? I don't have natural rocks around the pool as pointed out by Pragmatic.
    I agree with Brushpup, you'll pick this up in no-time! Us old farts can learn a few new tricks from time-to-time. Considering your time away, I'd recommend the SWG 100%. Without an injection system or designated pourer (pool-sitter), I would not trust being away for 2weeks. I have no doubt that the Clorox / Acid-Only treatment pays off in the end, but the manual addition game is kind of a pain. I'm sure someone more experienced can walk you through all the details on converting to SWG.
    Dave My Pool Build, ODK Build
    22X42 Gunite Freeform 23K Gal, 10X12 Spa
    Diamond-Brite midnight blue, 1800sq. ft Kool Deck
    Pentair Easy-Touch 8, 2-2hp Pentair, 500lb Sand Filter, 400K btu Pentair heater

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Hi again,
    I received my test kit and tested the water, here is the result:
    CYA: 200
    CH:550
    The rest was in line with Leslie’s:
    FAC: 3
    TAC: 3
    CH: 550
    CYA: 150
    TA: 80
    PH: 7.6
    Copper:0
    Iron: 0
    TDS: 0

    I had the pool, water and tap water tested by Warehouse Pool Supply too:
    Pool:
    CYA:300
    CH:525
    Tap:
    CH:100.
    Again the rest was not that different.
    I believe CH result is somehow accurate, and CYA should be around 200 ish.
    So in conclusion, I need to do a 50% drain and refill.
    I have some Brown ish stains; have done the Vitamin C test and works like a treat!
    The ultimate goal is to get rid of the stains, get the water balanced for SWG system with Borate, and install SWG.
    So, here is the plan I’ve come up with:
    1- Do the ascorbic acid treatment.
    2- Drain the water and re-fill, to get rid of most of CYA, CH and Iron (now dissolved).
    3- Add Boric acid
    4- Get the water Balanced for SWG and add salt
    5- Install SWG
    Here are the questions:
    1- Does the plan look sound and rational?
    2- What are the risks of drain/re-fill? What should be considered?
    3- What chemicals to use as Algaeacid and sequestering agent? Reasonably priced ones please!
    4- Can I wait till first week of April before I start? We are not planning to swim before then, the waste water here is calculated based on Feb-Mar water consumption, so will have to pay a fortune for the rest of the year otherwise! Have to add plenty of bleach in the meantime, but still would be cheaper!

    Thanks for your help.
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    First, are you sure about the Cya number? This needs to be addressed. How did you get that?
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    I hope I have done it right!
    Conditions: Outside, sunny 4pm with my back to the sun, but it's winter sun mind you!
    First ran the test with pool water and reagent only, couldn't see the black spot when the level was well below 100. So diluted by removing 7ml(50%) of the solution and adding 7ml of pool water. This time read 100. Diluted again by removing another 7ml and adding 7ml of pool water, read just above 50. So found the result kind of consistent.
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    The staining is probably iron but possibly could be calcium as well. (probably not)

    Do you know the iron and calcium content of your fill water? If it's reasonably high, the stains will simply reappear unless you control your pH very carefully and keep sequestrant in the pool constantly.

    You have a pretty good plan but I'd like to see you have a cure for the staining rather than spend all that effort getting everything back to speed only to have your stains return in a few months.

    You will need to drain a lot more than 50%. A CYA of 250 would require about a 75% drain to get you down to around 70 CYA for your SWG.

    If you end up using sequestrant, buying the cheapest you can find will most likely give you the worst results.

    You will never need algaecide in a properly managed pool.

    You have obviously done some homework but I think you need to absorb a bit more on sequestrants, algaecides, and the importance of chlorine.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    Well, Based on the first test done by Leslie's, Iron was 0 in pool water. Need to get the fill water tested obviously before finalizing the plan. CH of fill water is 100.
    I though of Algaeacid was during the AA treatment while FC goes to almost 0.
    How about the other questions?
    Risks involved in a partial/ full drain
    Can I postpone this plan till April?

    Thanks.
    20k Gallon Outdoor, IG Plaster Pool, Pentair Sand filter, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    A pool that has iron stains will often show 0 on the iron test.......there is no more iron in the pool water because it is on the walls.

    You are correct, algaecide is a decent safety net during the AA treatment.

    I would never fully drain a pool where 2-3 partials will surely accomplish the same goal.

    You can postpone it as long as you like. It will become somewhat more difficult (stains may set more, certainly a better chance of an algae bloom) as time goes on.

    How about the other questions?
    Help me more....which other ones?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: New Pool owner, high CYA and CH

    No, I didn't think you did it wrong, and please forgive me for causing any confusion. I should have read your post more carefully.
    I just asked since it was so high. Sorry about that.
    TFP Moderator
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