Proper grounding and requirements for inground pool with paver patio

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Thanks Jason. So precision here, under the pavers, is not what we're looking for. I like precise. LOL.

AS I said, both the electrician and inspector are cool with how it is going, but as I was thinking about it, I was like "But there's an "empty" spot and those pavers aren't protected!" LOL.
 
So in the spirit of overthinking - one last thought? There's a chance stones start getting laid tomorrow, so if I want to change this, this is my last chance. At the deep end ladder area, a concrete pad was poured, about 12" deep, 36" long, and about 18" back from pool wall. The bond wire runs THROUGH this pad, and is bonded to the wire mesh in this footing/pad. So no bond wire is present BEHIND the pad, which would be about 24" from water line. Running through the footing, it's about 18" back from water line, but encased in concrete. Should the bond wire also run on the back side of the footing, or is through it enough? The entire pool is surrounded by this bond wire whether in the base material, or through a concrete footing/pour.

Kind of a pain to do it now if needed, but it could be done. But I don't think it is necessary. Inspector didn't say anything, but not sure if he caught it. So just thinking it through. LOL

Thanks!
 
Ditto to what Jason says above. Rebar or mesh or any conductor with a lot of surface area is acting more like a net trying to grab any stray currents loitering in the neighborhood. Once garbed they are shared equally so no matter where you are in the water, on the deck, drinking your mi tai in the lounge chair, or in between, (I should say especially in between) the electrical current running through you is running through everything you are in contact with equally. While the contact at any one point on the mesh may be marginal, the fact there is a net of mesh with a relatively large surface area is what makes it work.


Over time better pool bonding has not only lead to less deaths but also to less small stray current problems. With a properly bonded pool you never know you have a stray current problem. So if you have a pool and can feel stray current you have both a bonding problem and a stray current problem.

Finally there are parts of me that get annoyed about the folks who ask whats the least I can do to bond my pool? To me its not a question of what the inspector will pass or what the code requires. It is a question of what do I need to do to bond my pool to create an area of equal electrical potential and keep everyone safe?
 
Based on your description you appear to meet code. The inspector seems to agree.

The concrete will conduct voltage from behind that little pad at least as well as the pavers do, so that area is at least as safe as other areas (probably safer as the grid inside the concrete will conduct better than the pavers do).

It is always possible to do more, but you have to stop at some point. From everything you have described you have met or exceeded current safety standards. That is a very reasonable place to stop.
 
Thanks gwegan. That's why I'm asking the questions though. This is my pool. My house. My kids. My family. Just because the inspector said its good or didn't say it wasn't isn't a reason for me not to question. I like to question everything. I learn that way. That's why I'm asking about the ladder pad before it is too late. Should the bond wire also be behind the pad in the bare sub base or since it's through the concrete footing and attached to the mesh is there not additional advantage.
 
Thanks Jason. I think I get it now. The bond "ring" acts like a "shield" on both sides of it. As long as it is all encasing it will grab whatever stray current it can whether from the side, above, below, directly in front to behind. Etc.
 
Re: another bonding question

Well I'm very glad this post came up! I have fence in a few spots that is within 10'. Never even thought of the fence being bonded, and the inspector didn't mention it, likely because he didn't know where it would be placed at the time of inspecting the rest of the bonding job. Anyway, I need to bond the fence too. It will have a bond wire running around the entire fence, underground, tied to each post, and then connected to the bond wire running around the pool...glad I caught it now.
 
Re: another bonding question

You don't need to bond things that are more than 3' from open water unless they come in direct contact with the water (i.e. pump, heater, etc). Fences are not normally bonded unless they can be reached from in the water.
 
Re: another bonding question

Really? Inspector said anything metal within 10'. Not a big deal to do it, but another spool of copper wire, and the time. You certainly can't touch the fence from the water. But you could touch the fence while standing on wet pavers in a few spots.
 

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Woops. I realized too that my original reply about the fence above was meant for another thread, vs my own. But this works too.

I just looked at the code, and I see this, which would seem to be the only thing that puts fences into play:

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(7) Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment. Metalsheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, and all fixed metal parts shall be bonded.

Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a permanent barrier shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally of the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured vertically above the maximum water level of the pool, or as measured vertically above any observation stands, towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be required to be bonded.

--------------------------

So this seems like it's 5 feet...not 10, but not 3...maybe this is the wrong section. I'm going to call the electrician next.
 
I believe you are correct, 5'. In older versions of the code it was debatable if a fence was part of 680.26(B)(6), but in the 2011 version it is made clear that a fence is part of that section. In older versions of the code a fence would sometimes be included in 680.26(B)(2), which is 3 feet.

An entertaining open question is which section a metal deck between 3' and 5' from the water falls into. Fortunately, no one has metal decks.

The 10' claim comes up over and over again, but I've never found which version/section of the code it might come from.
 
Electrician just called. He said it's 5'. He thinks the inspector either didn't hear me, or he didn't click on the point that it's a fence. Either way, he said I don't need to bond it at all given that I'm at more than 5', but if it makes me happy, since it's all bolted together, just bond it at the back edge of the patio behind the diving board platform in that one spot, the closest spot the fence comes into the patio and be done with it. No need to connect it all over the place or run a line under the whole fence.
 
Was curious, so looked at the 2011 NEC you referenced. That is very clear. Metal Fences, less than 5 ft from water line must be bonded. Got it!

(7) Fixed Metal Parts. All fixed metal parts shall be bonded including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal door and window frames.

Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a permanent barrier that prevents contact by a person shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally of the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured vertically above the maximum water level of the pool, or as measured vertically above any observation stands, towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be required to be bonded.
 
So here's one more question...even though I don't have to bond the fence (more than 5'), I'm going to bond the section that is nearest the pool anyway. It's around 7'. I know all connectors need to be rated for direct burial. But does the grounding lug that will connect the bond wire to the aluminum fence post need to be rated for CU and AL? It's not aluminum wire, but it is an aluminum fence post.

Thanks
 
I believe the CU/AL ratings only pertain to the wire connections, so a standard CU rated bonding clamp should be fine. The problems with aluminum wiring in the past were in situations where the connections were used for power delivery, which generates heat cycles at the connection and eventual catastrophic failure. Your bond circuit will not be carrying anything but very very low levels of current.
 
That's exactly what I thought. I know it's a good idea on power circuits to use an antioxidant compound too if you do mix them with properly rated breakers, wire nuts, etc.

Anyway I just made sure I got a lug rated for direct burial. I wonder if it will have a good connection to the black finish or if it will need to be cleaned off first. We'll see.
 
Black finish implies an anodized coating or a powder coat, both of which can be very good electrical insulators. That's not what you want, so I'd suggest making sure you're clamp bites through the finish layer by measuring across your connection with an ohmmeter. Somewhere less than 1 ohm should be good enough. Drilling a hole thru the fence post to use a bolted connection and using star washers to bite thru the coating might be another good approach. Coating the finished connection with the same embedment compound required for niche shell bonding would be the ultimate long term joint protection.
 

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