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Thread: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

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    New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    New to forum, would appreciate any advice ...

    Getting close to starting an inground gunite 580 sqft w/ 9' round spa. Looking for opinions on what pump and plumbing combo to go with. Equipment will be 90' from nearest edge of pool. Here's my first take on pump/plumbing setup:

    Pumps
    3 HP pump dedicated to spa jets with 2 HP blower motor. Would like to have 12 jets in spa (8 up top, 4 bottom) but would be ok with dropping to 10. Plan to use the waterway T jet assemblies. Plumbing would be a main drain with 3 inch pvc to pad and a 2.5 inch return to the jets.

    3 HP VS pump that primarily runs low speed for filtration and heating with returns to pool jets and spa return. Higher speeds would be used for 2 bubblers in tanning deck, polaris, and future waterfall. Main drain would be a 2.5" run to pad. Skimmers would be another 2.5. I guess the returns: bubblers, pool jets, spa return, polaris line, and waterfall line would all be 2"??

    Spa Questions:
    Is the spa pump/blower motor setup sounding good for that number of jets at that distance?
    How's my spa plumbing size sound for that setup?
    If I go 3" spa main drain, do I just step that down to 2" at the pump?

    Pool/Other Feature Questions:
    Can a 3HP VS pump handle everything I've listed there? How do I determine how many GPM a 3HP VS pump can push at various settings with a 90' run?
    Any thoughts on my plumbing sizes?

    I don't know much about automation systems. Could I control all the intakes (skimmers/main drains) and direct the outflow (w/ option to bypass filter to not put too much flow through it) with actuators and automation sys? My goal here is to have all this stuff and not use 3 pumps.

    Sorry if I've asked this in an unorganized way ... I'm just beginning to wrap my mind around all the terminology.

    Thanks
    Scot

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    Welcome to TFP.

    Maybe Mark will come along and help you with the hydraulics as he is the hydraulic god!

    I'll just say for you to be aware that most mfg's will extend the warranty of the equipment if you buy at least 3 pieces of major equipment of the same brand. Just something to keep in mind.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    With 12 jets, I would recommend two separate 3" loops on two separate pumps (6 jets each). A single pump would not have enough flow rate for 12 jets. Even 10 jets would be pushing it. Normal jets require about 15 GPM each but if you have 25 GPM jets, then you may need 3 separate loops/pumps.

    Also, if the vent line for the spa is designed properly (e.g. large pipe with few bends and a Hartford loop), you may not need a blower. You can always add one later if needed but it is best to design the vent to exclude it.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    Bama Rambler, thanks for the welcome and the tip.

    mas985, I'm going with those poly storm jets and they say 10 GPM. Talked to their tech and he recommended not going over 15 or I'd risk pushing water into my air(blower) line. I'll try the 'wait and see' approach on the blower ... thanks for the suggestion.

    It looks like I'm going to be forced to move my equipment pad to about 40' from the pool edge. Hate to do that, but I think the 90'+ would just knock the water flow down too hard. It looks like there's a serious drop off in most pumps GPM charts with the further distances.

    Any other comments from anyone on the rest of my stuff?

    thanks
    Scot

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    Don't equate horizontal pipe distances with the head curve of the pumps. Horizontal distances add very little head to the system as long as it's sized large enough to begin with.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    You would have no issue going to a further distance if you also up-size the pipe/fitting sizes. The length adds head loss, but increasing the pipe size lowers it more than the added length adds.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler View Post
    Don't equate horizontal pipe distances with the head curve of the pumps. Horizontal distances add very little head to the system as long as it's sized large enough to begin with.
    [QUOTE=You would have no issue going to a further distance if you also up-size the pipe/fitting sizes. The length adds head loss, but increasing the pipe size lowers it more than the added length adds.[/QUOTE]

    OK, I looked online for ways to calculate total head and got a migraine. I run a large reef aquarium in my house that I've plumbed to the garage to keep water cool. I had to figure the head for the pump in that situation, but the folks who do reefs just said to add up the number of feet I go vertical. That all worked out OK for me.

    I did my research on the pool stuff and I'm seeing charts that show stats at 80ft, 100ft, etc. So I figure that pools are different because there are greater distances involved. These charts refer to it as "feet of water". Does that equate to distance from the pool?

    I guess my big question is ... How many GPM can I expect for a Hayward super II at 40ft and 100ft away from the pools edge? I know there's a lot of other factors like: number of elbows, etc, etc ... but a really rough number will help me.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner/Builder: Pump-Plumb Advice Needed

    Head loss or feet of water is not easily calculated ... and really serves no purpose as knowing the flow rate generally does not matter.

    The super ii are big pumps so should move plenty of water.

    Mark (mas985) has spreadsheets that estimate flow rate, but they need filter pressure and details about the plumbing.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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