Intsalling high pressure shower feature

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milbogo

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Mar 15, 2011
31
Hi,

I would like to install a high pressure shower feature (picture attached). I have figured out that I need an extra pump - about 2HP (560 Litres per minute) to get the high pressure I need. So I will be having two pumps in my pool setup - (a) variable speed pump for everyday use - and (b) high pressure pump for shower feature - used rarely. These are my options - and I am unsure which one is best. Keep in mind that suction safety (entrapment) is a key issue I want to address. I want to avoid kids (hair) getting sucked in etc.

OPTIONS:
1. Put a valve before existing pump - that directs water to new pump (and back when needed). So I can switch between the two pumps. Water flow will be from skimmer only to pump(s). Distance from skimmer to pump is about 15m. I figure the skimmer box will be enough protection from entrapment.
2. Put a valve before the flow inlets that go into the pool - so the inlets can become the suction inlets for the new pump. Distance from from flow inlets to new pump is about 2m. I figure two suction inlets will be safer than one ie pressure is reduced if one is blocked. I will of course need to turn off existing setup when using this setup.
3. Drill a dedicated section inlet for the new pump (I would imagine I need to install some sort of safety device - as there will be a lot of suction coming into 1 port). Any advice on what the cheapest safety feature for this option would be appreciated.

My ideas may be left field - but I am looking for the easiest/safest way to do this.

For me - number 1 option seems easiest - as long as an additional valve doesn't cause too much friction for my variable speed pump.

I would appreciate any assistance and opinions.

Kind regards,
Mil.
 

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At first glance, I'd say go with option number 1. You may no even need a valve (other than a couple of check valves) to switch between the two depending on the size of the suction piping.

I would also consider running the shower pump from the discharge of the main pump. A booster pump as it were. Just crank the speed of the main pump up a bit whenever the shower is on to make sure you supply enough water to the shower pump.

How much flow does the shower require?
How much pressure does the shower require?
Do you have an automation system?
 
Bama Rambler said:
At first glance, I'd say go with option number 1. You may no even need a valve (other than a couple of check valves) to switch between the two depending on the size of the suction piping.

I would also consider running the shower pump from the discharge of the main pump. A booster pump as it were. Just crank the speed of the main pump up a bit whenever the shower is on to make sure you supply enough water to the shower pump.

How much flow does the shower require?
How much pressure does the shower require?
Do you have an automation system?
Click to expand...

Can you explain the check valve setup? I assume you are saying that I need to connect each pump to the skimmer outlet pipe (via some sort of "Y" setup ie 1 pipe 2 pumps) - with each pump having a check valve before it. Each other pump check valve will activate once the pump is turned on - is that correct? If so - will this setup cause more friction when the pump is running normally?

How much flow does the shower require? It requires a 2hp pump - Viron on Max is 1.5hp
How much pressure does the shower require? 560LPM - Viron is 262LPM
Do you have an automation system? No - not yet - will take advice on this. I a setting up a new system on an old pool. Any advice or guidance is much apprecited.
 
It doesn't look like I need to explain the check valve setup. You have it correct. The check valves are to prevent one pump from pulling water backward through the other pump in case it's shut off.

:shock: I just did the math and if it requires 560 lpm (150gpm) you're not going to be able to use any existing suction you have now. Sorry I didn't do that sooner.

560 LPM will require a minimum 2" (50mm) diameter piping if it's a short run. 3" (75mm) piping would be better.
Do you know the pressure that's required at that flow?
Do you have a make and model of the shower?

I know pictures can be deceiving, but that doesn't look like nearly 150 gpm coming out of that thing.
 
I agree with Bama, 150 GPM is in the flow range of a typical 2 inch fire hose (U.S. standards suggest a minimum of 100 GPM, ideal of 150 GPM and Max of 200 GPM, for a 1 man "attack" fire hose)
 
Bama Rambler said:
It doesn't look like I need to explain the check valve setup. You have it correct. The check valves are to prevent one pump from pulling water backward through the other pump in case it's shut off.

:shock: I just did the math and if it requires 560 lpm (150gpm) you're not going to be able to use any existing suction you have now. Sorry I didn't do that sooner.

560 LPM will require a minimum 2" (50mm) diameter piping if it's a short run. 3" (75mm) piping would be better.
Do you know the pressure that's required at that flow?
Do you have a make and model of the shower?

I know pictures can be deceiving, but that doesn't look like nearly 150 gpm coming out of that thing.
Click to expand...

I dont have specs of the shower yet - all I know is that the manufacturer says that they need a 2HP pump connected to it. The specs I provided were for that 2HP pump. I will try to get the actual spec for the shower.

I will be running 50mm piping from the skimmer to these pumps - but my skimmer box only has a 40mm outlet - is this ok ie if I use a reducer?
 
We can't answer whether the skimmer port will handle the flow or not until we know the actual requirements of the shower. Once you get that, we'll be able to figure out if the existing plumbing will handle it.
 
Isaac-1 said:
I agree with Bama, 150 GPM is in the flow range of a typical 2 inch fire hose (U.S. standards suggest a minimum of 100 GPM, ideal of 150 GPM and Max of 200 GPM, for a 1 man "attack" fire hose)
Click to expand...

A 2 inch fire hose I imagine will pack a lot of punch. If this is the case - I think I am on the right track with 50mm piping (ie 2 inch piping).

560lpm (from 2HP pump) = 147.9GPM - so that should be enough pressure for a nice strong massaging shower.
 
You're confusing pressure and flow. They're only minorly related. For instance we have a pump that will move about 16,000 gpm but only at about 10 feet of head.

That 2hp pump may move 147 gpm but it might be a very low head (pressure). Give me the make and model of the pump and I can look it up.
 
Bama Rambler said:
You're confusing pressure and flow. They're only minorly related. For instance we have a pump that will move about 16,000 gpm but only at about 10 feet of head.

That 2hp pump may move 147 gpm but it might be a very low head (pressure). Give me the make and model of the pump and I can look it up.
Click to expand...

The pump they supply with the shower head has these specs (from China - too expensive to import):

1.2HP
2.1.5kw
3.Port size:50mm
4.Head:15m
5.Flow:25m³/h
6.NPSH:0M

This is the pump I will be buying in its replacement in Australia (also see attachment).

Specs:

Rated Power: 1500W
Voltage/Frequency: 220~240V/50Hz
Max. Pump Rate: 33,000L/hr or 550L/ min
Max. Head: 18.5m
Max. Grain/ Particle Size: 2.5mm
Diameter of Inlet/ Outlet Pipe: 60mm
Length of Cable: 1.5m
Max. Temperature of water handled: 40 Degree Celsius
Product Size : 66cm(L) x 28cm(W) x 46cm(H)
Weight: 16Kg
CE, EMC, GS & TUV Approved


The showerhead 's height is 1.5m,the spout inlet size is 50mm/1.5inch.
The nozzle's opening is 150mm.

Hopefully this will work. The pump will be 13m from the skimmer box. The shower head will be a further 8m away. All piping in a relative flat plane.

Kind regards,
Mil
 

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We have these showers at our local public pool.

The pressure is super strong - you cant hold your hand up to it - but man - it givees a fantastic massage. So yes - that's what I am trying to achieve - a strong massaging jet.
 
25m³/h is about 110 gpm.

The pump they supply will do 25m³/h at 15m head.
The pump you show will do 25m³/h at about 12.5m head.
They're pretty close but you'll need to run fairly large pipe and reduce the fittings to the absolute minimum to get the best performance.
All in all, it should work pretty well.

It appears that the shower tubing is flattened on the end to produce the nozzle.
 
I am confused about which pump to get:

(1)
2HP
1500W
Max. Pump Rate: 33,000L/hr (550L/ min)
Max. Head: 18.5m

0r

(2)
2.5hp
1800W
Max Flow Rate: 36,000 litres /hr (600 litres /min)
Head: 17 m

The 2HP has more head - but less flow.

I am thinking I need more flow rate as I will be running about 24m of pipe before this pump - and still want the pressure to be strong at the shower head.
 
I would tend to opt for the higher head pressure, you really need to see the flow curves though, and know the pressure level of the shower, it is very possible that the higher head lower HP pump will outflow the lower head pump at the upper end of the pressure range.

Ike
 
Without knowing the specific requirements for the shower all you can do is best guess at the pump.
Also without the specifics, you don't know where on the curve of either pump that you'll be running.
I suspect that either pump will run it, but I'd go with the higher head.
 
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