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Thread: Changing pool piping

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    Changing pool piping

    Hi guys - I am new to this forum and very new to the pool world - as we have adopted an 55,000 Litre in ground pool with the house we bought - so i have a few questions if I may on this wonderful forum.

    I am replacing my pump - and I also need to move it. So I need to change my piping as well - so I will take he opportunity to change piping from 40mm to 50mm (as the new pump I am getting is a DC 3 speed one).

    Here are my questions:

    1. My skimmer box still has 40mm outlet - is it ok to put a 40mm to 50mm connector here - or will the 40mm on the skimmer cause more friction/bottle neck.
    2. My sand filter also has 40mm connectors - it is best to change my sand filter to one that has 50mm connectors as well? or will a 50mm to 40mm reducer be fine here as well. Keep in mind my new pump will be about 12m from the skimmer box.
    3. Is it best to have 50mm piping or 40mm piping from the filter back to the pool? I am thinking that 40mm may cause more pressure with the water coming back to the pool - which is better for circulation - especially when using pump at low speed....or is it better to keep it at 50mm for less friction.

    My aim is to set up an optium system to reduce running costs - so now is the time to get it right.

    Your feedback would be appreciated.

    Kind regards,
    Mil.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Welcome to TFP !! Congrats on becoming a pool owner.

    My knowledge in this area is limited, but I wanted to welcome your to the forum. When you get some free time do some reading in pool school.

    Since you are a new pool owner your going to need a good test kit like one of the ones we recommend. Take a look at this. pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison.

    Here is another good place to start in pool school. pool-school/pool_water_chemistry

    pool-school/types_chlorine_pool

    Hope you enjoy the forum !!
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Not familiar with Australian nomenclature but in the US
    (as the new pump I am getting is a DC 3 speed one)
    would imply a Direct Current 3 speed electric pump. Is that correct?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Using reducers at the skimmer and filter is fine. It would be better if the filter had 50mm connections, but there's no need to change it out just to get the larger fittings.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Changing pool piping

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Not familiar with Australian nomenclature but in the US
    (as the new pump I am getting is a DC 3 speed one)
    would imply a Direct Current 3 speed electric pump. Is that correct?
    Yes - a variable speed pump - Viron P320.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Changing pool piping

    So - can someone answer this one:
    Is it best to have 50mm piping or 40mm piping from the filter back to the pool? I am thinking that 40mm may cause more pressure with the water coming back to the pool - which is better for circulation - especially when using pump at low speed....or is it better to keep it at 50mm for less friction.

    Thanks,
    Mil

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Larger pipe is ALWAYS better. There can be a point where it's not enough better to make it worthwhile but larger pipe will always decrease resistance and that's always a good thing.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Yup. If you want to increase the velocity of the water when it enters the pool for better circulation, then you can just use smaller eyeballs in the pool (although this adds some head loss and thus lowers the total flow rate some).

    It is generally more important to have the larger pipe on the suction side. Not uncommon for basic pools here to have a single 2" suction line with a single 1.5" return line that splits to the jets. Of course it depends on the number of suction sources (floor and skimmer?) and the number of return jets in the pool.

    My pool actually only had a single 1.5" suction line from the skimmer, I have since added a second 1.5" suction line from the wall.

    Another note, while increasing the pipe size will increase the flow rate up to a point, realize that the more water you are moving, the more electricity it takes. If you are usually running the pump on lower speeds as we recommend, the pipe size may not matter very much anyway.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Changing pool piping

    I just drained the dirty water out of my skimmer - and it appears the outlet inside the skimmer is 50mm. I can see a thread on on the 50mm port from the inside. There are two ports on each side also - they are blocked - and those are 40mm. These side ports are higher than the 50mm on the base. Coming out of the skkimmer is a 40mm pipe held with some concrete. So it may be the case it was 50mm - and someone reduced it to 40mm. Is it worth trying to remove the 40mm piplecoming from the skimmer to see if it is infact 50mm - or is it best left alone (I need to remove a little concrete to see). ie - it really doesnt make a difference.

    Also - my pump will be at sligtly below the water line - possible on a slight gradient - will I need a check valve? When are check valves required anyway?

    Kind regards,
    Mil.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    I would not make the effort to replace a short piece of the smaller pipe.

    If pump is bellow the pool, you may want a shut off valve on the suction line so you can open the pump basket. Not a check valve. Same on the return lines, although you could use a check valve, but that adds head loss.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Changing pool piping

    With the way my pool is set on a slight slope - I have the option to:

    1. Have the pump below the skimmer outlet
    2. Same height as the skimmer outlet
    3. Higher than the skimmer outlet
    Which is the best option in terms of efficiency for my variable speed pump?

    Also - this forum mentions and recommends 2.5 inch pipes - is that an external or internal measurement?
    In Australia 40mm and 50mm pipes are the most common - but these are internal measurements. 40mm fittings measure 48mm & 50mm fittings measure 60mm on the OD. So when you guys mention 2.5 inch pipes in this forum - is that our 50mm (60mm) external ones?

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    Your 40mm is our 1½" and your 50mm is our 2". 2½" would be your 65mm.

    In the U.S. pipes are designated by NPS (Nominal Pipe Size) loosely measured by the ID, but with the need for the piping to mate fittings the ID varies based on the schedule or thickness.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Changing pool piping

    What type of sand filter do I need to optimist my setup ie size.

    3 Speed Variable speed pump (running on low most of the time_
    50mm pipes
    55,000 Litre pool

    Kind reagrds,
    Mil

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    I'm not sure how your filter are designated but a 24" (600mm) would be about the smallest I'd recommend.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Changing pool piping

    Hi guys,

    I have laid down my 50mm pipe layout roughly - can you please advise if this is OK- or I should do something else to optimise the setup before I start pain-staking digging.
    This is my last chance to get it right.

    Few points:

    1. I have the option of having the pump lower than skimmer outlet - is it better to have lower, same height or higher - I can do either of these? (See pic 3 below)
    2. Is the length of the last straight pipe before it enters the pump important? I read somewhere that you should have a certain length of straight pipe before it enters the pump. I can make this last length that enters the pump shorter or longer - by changing the pipe length between last two joins (See pic 2 below).
    3. Is the distance between connectors important? ie does longer length between connectors cause less friction and more velocity?
    4. Sand filter has 40mm fittings.
    5. I plan on buying a Viron P320 Variable speed pump.

    Any advice on how to optimse this setup before I dig would be greatly appreciated. Since i have spent money and time I would like to get it right. You know the deal - one small thing - can make a difference over the years in cost savings.

    Kind regards,
    Mil
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  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    1) Having the pump about even with the water level is best.
    2) Looks like you have a long section of pipe before pump. You only need about a foot or so.
    3) Distance between fittings isn't very important unless they're back to back out of plane.
    4) & 5) Both of those are fine.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Changing pool piping

    Is there a point where its not worth having 2 x 45 elbows together? is how far should they be apart to make it worth while having them - as oppose to just having 1 x 90 degree connector.

    Mil

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    In the grand scheme, using two 45 is not worth it ... more joints with very little difference in head loss.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Changing pool piping

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    In the grand scheme, using two 45 is not worth it ... more joints with very little difference in head loss.
    Wow - I am surprised to hear that. There seems to be many views expressing the opposite. Logically - one would think a gradual curve will cause less friction than a 90 degree one. A car can travel faster around a curve - than it can around sharp corner.

    However - I trust this forum - and I assume you guys have some hard technical tests that enable you to come to this conclusion - right?

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Changing pool piping

    There is no real point to minimizing head loss in a few turns when the filter and backwash valve (if you have one) add so much. If you really care, going to larger pipe and fittings well save you more in head loss, but at some point there is no real gain.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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