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Thread: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

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    Chad628's Avatar
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    Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    I have been reading several posts about how adding borates to a pool affects pool chemistry. I am confused about the logic of a statement I have seen in several posts which says that adding borates slows down the rise in PH but has no affect on muriatic acid consumption over time. It would seem to me that if ph rise slows down, acid consumption would have to go down as well.

    I will use my pool as an example. i have an 11k gallon plaster pool. I try to keep my ph in the 7.5 to 7.8 range. I measure ph daily and when i get a reading of 7.8 I add 24 ounces of 20 Baum muriatic acid (per pool math) to reduce it to 7.5. If as a result of adding borates it increases the length of time for the ph to rise from 7.5 to 7.8 from 3 days to 5 days how could that not result in a reduction of acid consumption? Instead of adding 24 ounces of acid every three days I am adding 24 ounces of acid every 5 days. Instead of adding 240 ounces per month I would only add 144 ounces per month as a result of adding borates to my pool. Where am I going wrong in my conclusions?
    Petaluma, CA., 11K gallon IG pool, white plaster, Nautilus FNS 36 sq. ft. DE Filter, Jandy 1.5 HP variable speed E pump, Pentair Booster Pump with Polaris Vac-Sweep 280 pool cleaner, Jandy Laars LX Pool Heater, Remodeled (new plumbing, plaster, tile, coping, variable speed pump) January 2013. 400 gallon Artesian Island Spa (Ozonator/Chlorine), TF-100 test kit, SpeedStir.

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    check the calculator again, It should require a greater quantitiy of acid to reduce the ph when borates are being used.
    12000g outdoor, inground gunite, pebbletec. Cartridge filter. 2.0 HP Jandy pump, taylor test kit
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    Quote Originally Posted by jkolacny
    check the calculator again, It should require a greater quantitiy of acid to reduce the ph when borates are being used.
    This is correct. The pH rise is slower, so the acid will be added less often, but in order to overcome the borates' buffering effect on pH, more acid will be used at each addition.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Chad628's Avatar
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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    Thank you for pointing that out to me. I just now figured out that the calculation for the amount of acid to lower PH depends on both the level of borates and total alkalinity. I am embarrassed to admit that I did not understand the relationship between acid consumption, borate levels, and total alkalinity after months of reading pool school and other posts on this web site. I guess I will never stop learning.
    Petaluma, CA., 11K gallon IG pool, white plaster, Nautilus FNS 36 sq. ft. DE Filter, Jandy 1.5 HP variable speed E pump, Pentair Booster Pump with Polaris Vac-Sweep 280 pool cleaner, Jandy Laars LX Pool Heater, Remodeled (new plumbing, plaster, tile, coping, variable speed pump) January 2013. 400 gallon Artesian Island Spa (Ozonator/Chlorine), TF-100 test kit, SpeedStir.

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    I am embarrassed to admit that I did not understand the relationship between acid consumption, borate levels, and total alkalinity after months of reading pool school and other posts on this web site.
    Do not be. It is one of the most difficult things to get your arms wrapped around. I would say that easily half of our members, including me, do not have a great grasp of it but reading more and more about it will slowly allow you to get a better understanding.

    After nine years, I think I have 85-90% of it but I still do not have the thorough understanding I should have.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    I now have a greater appreciation of what an amazing tool the pool calculator is to make accurate calculations taking into consideration the complex relationships between all these variables. How in the world did people care for their pools before the age of the internet?
    Petaluma, CA., 11K gallon IG pool, white plaster, Nautilus FNS 36 sq. ft. DE Filter, Jandy 1.5 HP variable speed E pump, Pentair Booster Pump with Polaris Vac-Sweep 280 pool cleaner, Jandy Laars LX Pool Heater, Remodeled (new plumbing, plaster, tile, coping, variable speed pump) January 2013. 400 gallon Artesian Island Spa (Ozonator/Chlorine), TF-100 test kit, SpeedStir.

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    [How in the world did people care for their pools before the age of the internet?]

    Amen to that. And especially TFP !! I live in Italy and rely on this excellent web site as a professional text book. thanks to all those who give up so much of their time to contribute answers to us newbies and mid-level users

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    I agree jwfrank! I felt compelled to become a supporter of TFP because I know for a fact TFP has saved me from wasting hundreds of dollars using the wrong methods and products to care for my pool (and I love my free TFP T shirt). Not only does TFP have an excellent resource in pool school but it provides you with your own personal consultants simply by having you register and post your questions. The icing on the cake with TFP is that this community has good manners. That is very refreshing to see on the internet. When I made the decision to care for my own pool I knew absolutely zero about how to do it. There is true value in TFP and I hope its membership grows and that people continue to support it. It is very worth while.
    Petaluma, CA., 11K gallon IG pool, white plaster, Nautilus FNS 36 sq. ft. DE Filter, Jandy 1.5 HP variable speed E pump, Pentair Booster Pump with Polaris Vac-Sweep 280 pool cleaner, Jandy Laars LX Pool Heater, Remodeled (new plumbing, plaster, tile, coping, variable speed pump) January 2013. 400 gallon Artesian Island Spa (Ozonator/Chlorine), TF-100 test kit, SpeedStir.

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    Ditto to what Chad just said. Thanks to everyone here! And Merry Christmas!!
    Mesa, AZ Spillover spa and inground pool, 12,500 G, pebble finish, Hayward C5030 (525sf) Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Installed July 2013, Hayward SWG T-Cell-15, Trident UV (I know, I know....was installed before I found this site!) Rock grotto waterfall, LED ColorLogic lighting, 110 BTU Heat Pro Electric Heat Pump, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 cleaner, TF-100 test kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Muriatic Acid Consumption and Borates

    Very, very, late to this, but thanks to all of you for the nice comments on TFP!
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