I use Ionization and wanted opinions (flame suit ON)

[fazang]

Hi,
I'm still a newbie with the pool and need a little help.
Background:
bought my folks house that i grew up in, so i know the pool and the system.
Now as the owner trying to figure out how to get it in usable shape.
inground pool 20X40 at least, Hayward Pro-series Sand filter with Valve on TOP
One speed pump that we run constantly.

I Sanitize with a two electrode copper/Silver ionizer (contoller settings are 10-100) in increments of 10.

I oxidize the pool with one pound bags of 45% Potassium Monopersulfate chlorine-free shock i buy from intheswim.com as they have highest chemical concentration of the product.

My stats are here:
T/A = 80-100 ppm
pH = 7.6 - 7.8
Calcium hardness = 150 - 300 ppm
(TDS) total dissolved solids = Less than 2300 ppm
Copper = .3 ppm

Unfortunately ALL my water tests are in that range and the water is cloudy with slight green tint and i have no F'ing clue where to start.
So i called my pool-guy and he guessed the green was algae so i dumped one quart of liquid stuff from Lesile Pools that i made sure would not harm the ionizer (no metals 8) ) as he suggested, and he also said dump in 5 one pound bags of the shock (Potassium Monopersulfate). Third thing he said was turn ionizer OFF, i did.
I did this june 23rd 7:00 AM.
the water is still greenish and cloudy and now has tiny layer of foam on top of the water...

My theory is i turned the ionizer on TOO soon since opening the pool and there is too much copper in the water and that gave the green tint.
The cloudy water i have yet to figure what the hec is doing that ??? my guess is need to check if sand in filter needs replacing?? Pool-guy says no but will do it if i ask.


As i said i know the pool history from my folks and they had no issues and new what they were doing... I don't want to trouble them with this and want to try and figure it out on my own.
As i recall the typical deal is
1.the pool-guy opens the pool
2. he dumps in stuff to get water close to balanced and proper color
3. i keep eye on pressure guage and backwash as needed.
4. allow 2 weeks to go by with pump running constantly and i test water(same time everyday) over this time
to get it balanced.
5. Then when water balanced i turn on ionizer (crank to 70) to get copper level to where it needs to be.
6. when i test water i know check copper also and when good turn ionizer to 20-30 range to level off the copper output.
7. then DIVE IN !! (..in theory)

So this year i think i screwed myself and turned ionizer on too early.....
BTW the pool is from 87' and i think filter installed in 1995

-ALF out......

 

[JasonLion]

Given you are using an ionizer, your copper level is alright, a bit low even.

One critical thing with ionizers is to keep the PH at 7.5 or lower, ideally around 7.2.

Are you using chlorine at all? The pool is not safe to swim in unless you use at least a small amount of chlorine. There are only three EPA approved sanitizers, chlorine, bromine, and baquacil. You have to be using one of them or the water is not safe. Normally ionizer systems are used with very low levels of chlorine.

It would be a huge help if you had better test results. Calcium between 150 and 300 really doesn't tell us much. There is no substitute for a high quality test kit. I recommend the a kit from TF Test Kits, see the link in my signature. The Taylor K-2006 is also good. If you continue to use the ionizer you will also need a low range copper test kit.

We really don't like copper/silver systems around here. If you don't keep your PH under better control and your copper levels are where they are supposed to be you will get copper staining which is unsightly and very difficult to remove.

 

[fazang]

Given you are using an ionizer, your copper level is alright, a bit low even.

One critical thing with ionizers is to keep the PH at 7.5 or lower, ideally around 7.2.

i will reread in manuals (folks kept all paperwork from pool install) but pretty sure they all say pH to be 7.6-7.8..... is there a logical reason it should be lower >?

Are you using chlorine at all? The pool is not safe to swim in unless you use at least a small amount of chlorine. There are only three EPA approved sanitizers, chlorine, bromine, and baquacil. You have to be using one of them or the water is not safe. Normally ionizer systems are used with very low levels of chlorine.
No chlorine at....never have and everyone is healthy still who has been in the pool regularly over the last 20 years so not sure what to say on that ....

It would be a huge help if you had better test results. Calcium between 150 and 300 really doesn't tell us much. There is no substitute for a high quality test kit. I recommend the a kit from TF Test Kits, see the link in my signature. The Taylor K-2006 is also good. If you continue to use the ionizer you will also need a low range copper test kit.
Last test was
CAL=200
TA= 100
pH= 7.7
Copp = .4
the store does it and i use same kit as them, i use them for double checking myself

We really don't like copper/silver systems around here. If you don't keep your PH under better control and your copper levels are where they are supposed to be you will get copper staining which is unsightly and very difficult to remove.

I know so thanx for tryin J.....

-ALF out.....

 

[Guest]

My comments in italics. No flame, just facts.

Given you are using an ionizer, your copper level is alright, a bit low even.

One critical thing with ionizers is to keep the PH at 7.5 or lower, ideally around 7.2.

i will reread in manuals (folks kept all paperwork from pool install) but pretty sure they all say pH to be 7.6-7.8..... is there a logical reason it should be lower >?
Many ionizer systems recommend lower pH to help prevent staining.
Are you using chlorine at all? The pool is not safe to swim in unless you use at least a small amount of chlorine. There are only three EPA approved sanitizers, chlorine, bromine, and baquacil. You have to be using one of them or the water is not safe. Normally ionizer systems are used with very low levels of chlorine.
No chlorine at....never have and everyone is healthy still who has been in the pool regularly over the last 20 years so not sure what to say on that ....
Ionizer systems used to be sold as 'chlorine alternatives' It is no longer legal to do so because of newer research into CT values (kill times) for certain pathogens. the newested recomendations in the US are residual FC levels of .5 to 1 ppm but that is even too low and in Auatrailia ionizer systems MUST be used with normal and not reduced chlorine levels. In Canada they are only registered as algaecides and not sanitizers. MPS is not going to be effective. I would suggest shocking with chlorine (lower your ph a bit first) and see if that clears the water. You probably only need to bring the FC up to about 10 ppm.
It would be a huge help if you had better test results. Calcium between 150 and 300 really doesn't tell us much. There is no substitute for a high quality test kit. I recommend the a kit from TF Test Kits, see the link in my signature. The Taylor K-2006 is also good. If you continue to use the ionizer you will also need a low range copper test kit.
Last test was
CAL=200
TA= 100
This could also be the cause of your cloudy water. You might have precipitated out calcium carbonate or copper carbonate. I would try dropping the pH to about 7.0 and see if the water clears. If it does don't be surprised if your copper levels shoot up. The green makes me believe it is from the copper since algae should not be growing in your pool with .3 ppm copper. However, bacteria can still grow and THAT might be contributing to the cloudiness. Shocking with chlorine like I said above should take care of that.
pH= 7.7
Copp = .4
the store does it and i use same kit as them, i use them for double checking myself

We really don't like copper/silver systems around here. If you don't keep your PH under better control and your copper levels are where they are supposed to be you will get copper staining which is unsightly and very difficult to remove.

I know so thanx for tryin J.....

-ALF out.....

My recommendation is to maintain a FC residual of 1-2 ppm (2 ppm is better). I think you will find that cures your cloudy water.

 

[fazang]

I forgot about this but figured I owed and explanation....
I gave up and called the guy that opens closes my pool and he just dumped another 5 gallons of chlorine into the pool ( he guessed he didn't put enough in when he opened it) and it was crystal clear the next morning. I guess it had more "stuff" in the water than usual so needed more when starting up for the season than we normally do.

So that cleared up my water and as we know the sun got rid of the chlorine in the water quick and i turned my ionizer on and had a new sand put in the sand filter and haven't touched anything
all summer and used the pool.

i haven't checked any where but i get what you guys are sayin about ionization not being "legal" anymore so if that is true fine. I live the if it ain't broke don't fix style of life so when i breaks i may goto bromine like my hottub.
Hope you all had a good summer too.

-ALF out....