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Thread: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little help

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    New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little help

    A little history
    Been keeping water testing records for my 1st year but readings were taken with strips and I know now that was a mistake, but with what I had I stayed in pretty good margins. I also went to the pool store for testing every couple of months. But I recently bought a ColorQ Pro-7 test kit a couple of weeks ago. http://www.lamotte.com/en/pool-spa/d...lorq/2056.html

    My problem started a couple of weeks ago when I noticed my SWG couldn't get above 2.7 even if set @ 100%. Being a new pool owner, I thought something was wrong with it so I called warranty. They sent their guy out and he immediately went to test the water and I was shocked to learn the numbers. I won't go over all of them in detail now but basically my chlorine was 10 or more, my CH was @ 800 & high CYA also. NOW...I had my test results from the pool store just a month prior to that dated 11-12-13 and everything was pretty much ok, so something happened in 3-4 weeks. I have no idea what. So that's what alerted me that I really have to test properly with the right equipment and way more often.

    So, what I did from there was diluted my pool 2'x about 4 hrs. each time, then added 2lbs. of Chlor Neutralizer to jump start getting that Chlorine down (a little at a time of course) then added a bag of salt, and a little soda ash. Now all those treatments were over several days and testing along the way.

    My current pool reading now are:
    FCI - 1.48, TCL - 1.70, PH - 7.4, TA 96, CH - 476, CYA 104 Salt 2800 (SWG OFF)
    I cleaned my cartridge filter & SWG yesterday to get rid of any residual chemistry and start fresh there also. I'm currently right now this morning diluting the pool again because as you can see my CH & CYA are still to high. I'm going to dilute quite a bit this time.
    My house water readings that I'm diluting it with are:
    FCI - 0.80, TCL - 0.80, PH - 7.2, TA 86, CH - 4124, CYA 7

    Once diluting is finished over the next couple of days of running the pump I'll adjust the PH, ALY, salt etc. to bring back into balance and hopefully my CH & CYA have come way down because I did notice yesterday some chalkiness around the top of tile above the plaster. The finish of my pool is called Hydrozzo. I got on my hands & knees and used a green clothe scotch pad and pool water and went all the way around the pool and scrubbed the tile. It got about 80% of it. I know now that keeping your PH & ALY balance will keep scaling in check and those are the most important numbers from what I have been reading.

    So here's my question:
    On this website I've read all the basic chemistry info, the ABC's etc., which I understand mostly now EXCEPT this issue of FCL and Total Chlorine. The website says, if your FC is above 0.5 you need to SLAM the pool. I don't know what SLAM means but I'm assuming it means shock. Assuming that's true, some shock has calcium in it and I don't need anymore of that. So help me here please on what type of shock I need to be using, how much & how often. ALSO, on the—Chlorine / CYA Chart—http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ya_chart_shock I find the SWG Pools chart hard to understand. Especially in the column where it says "Shock FC" and then has a number depending on your CYA. Can you all give me a definition or a simpler way to understand this and what type of shock etc. that I mentioned above?

    [bAny other observations you can make based on this info are very welcomed:[/b]

    My pool even through these recent issues has always "looked good" this first year and does to this day. But it won't if I don't get this chemistry thing in check and get this hardness issue resolved.

    Thank you for this website.

    Martin / Houston, TX
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Welcome to the forum.
    The website says, if your FC is above 0.5 you need to SLAM the pool.
    Actually, it says if your CC's (not FC) are above .5 ppm it is an indicator of the need to SLAM.

    There is an article in Pool School that describes the SLAM process.....it is more than just buying a product called "shock"
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Welcome to TFP.

    I see a few things that we need to work on.

    First realize that niether the ColorQ nor the pool store testing is reliable. This also didn't happen in a few weeks. The tests you have just didn't show it. That's very typical of what we see here.

    Take a look at the results you got for the fill water. There are a couple of problems with that to give you and example of the issues with the testor. If you had a CH of 4124 your water would be thick coming out of the tap. Also tap water diesn't have CYA at all so you can't have a CYA of 7 ppm.

    Assuming you're using a hose to add water to the pool. Running it 4 hours would add about 1400 gallons to the pool. You don't say how large your pool is but that's about 10% of a normal sized pool. Also if your fill water CH was 4000 you'd be increasing the CH by adding water instead of reducing it.

    As for the type of chlorine to use to SLAM the pool. I'm not sure that you even need to do that. What you really need are some good test results.

    I'm sorry that you spent money on the ColorQ, but you really need to invest in a good drop based test kit.

    As for the Chlorine/CYA chart. That's the best tool to use. You have to have an accurate test result for the CYA in order to know what you should maintain the FC at. For instance if you had 70 ppm CYA then you'd need to maintain at least 3 ppm FC if you have a swg.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/Όhp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    • Pool size 10,000 (forgot that and realized that after I posted. Can't believe I forgot that)
    • Sorry on the CH reading 4124 that was a typo. I proof read my post but still missed that. My CH is 124 NOT 4124.
    • That CYA of 7 sounded weird to me also. I tested it twice & got the same result.
    • TFP poolcalc says I need to dilute 38% of the pool so that's around 8hrs. I'm doing that now.
    • Yeah I see now that the Tester I bought was the wrong one. No problem, it's only money right?

    I'm willing to buy another good kit and saw several on TFP's "Test Kits Compared:
    • I searched on the web and even went to Lamotte's website and there is no Model# LaMotte 7022 as suggested on TFP's "Test Kits Compared. Could you possibly include a link to the right one on Lamotte site? Please...
    • I also went on Amazon to find the Taylor K-2006C and here's the link for that. Is that the kit I need? Does it have everything necessary. It doesn't look very elaborate.
    http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Service...taylor+k-2006c

    As I dilute my water and then make adjustments over the next few days, if I continue to update this thread do people see it and stay with me on this process even though it may go way down the forum list OR should I start a new thread with a brief history and then update?

    Thanks so much guys.
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Keep all your info under this thread. Everyone can then see your continuous "story" and have good background info.

    "LaMotte FAS-DPD Commercial 7 Kit - Order Code: 7022" is the complete name for the kit.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    FYI, that link to the K-2006C is the right name, but the picture is not a picture of the K-2006C ... no idea why.

    Is there a reason you are not considering the TF-100 which is in fact the best value?

    Why are you replacing water? I guess you are assuming that the CYA reading was somewhat correct? ... which may or may not be a good assumption.

    Every time you post, the thread moves back to the top of the active list/unread posts list/new posts lists which most of us use when on the forum.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Answers to jblizzle:
    About the test kit
    No, no reason at all in not considering the TF-100 just not that knowledgeable yet about these more comprehensive test kits. I thought the one I bought was good. BUT...I can see now that it didn't have a FAS/DPD test and I didn't know you needed that. So I'm learningmore & more each day. On tftestkits.net the F-100 sells for $68.00 so I'll order that today.

    Your question...Why are you replacing water?
    Because my CH & CYA are way to high and have consistently been high and as I said earlier, yesterday I was washing off dried scale at the top of my tile. And from what I've been told & read, a CYA number over 100 isn't realiable and it's cold to boot which I'm told can affect the reading as well. So I have to get that number down for those reasons alone. So I'm replacing water.

    Just as a recap and make it easy to read here were my readings BEFORE I started diluting this morning:
    My current pool readings are:

    FCI - 1.48, TCL - 1.70, PH - 7.4, TA 96, CH - 476, CYA 104, Salt 2800 (SWG OFF)
    I cleaned my cartridge filter & SWG yesterday to get rid of any residual chemistry and start fresh there also. I'm currently right now this morning diluting the pool again because as you can see my CH & CYA are still to high. I'm going to dilute quite a bit this time.
    My house water readings that I'm diluting it with are:
    FCI - 0.80, TCL - 0.80, PH - 7.2, TA 86, CH - 124, CYA 7

    I'm finished diluting now, I'm ordering the kit today and after a day or two of running the pump I'll start addressing the PH & ALY if needed to get a little head start until the TF-100 kit comes. Then I'll take a full battery of tests, post them & see where we are.

    Thanks a lot guys.
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    If you don't mind, please explain the process you're goign through to dilute the pool water? It'll help us get a handle on how much effect it should have.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/Όhp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Well, yesterday I drained to just above where the tile meets the plaster (total of about 5" - 6" of water) with a sump pump then added new water and tested with no or little change. Both CH & AYA actually went up a little. So really early this morning I put my house hose in the the deep end of the pool and let it run and then as it rises the overflow goes to the street which is at the shallow end. I just took a preliminary test just now to get a feel for what's happening and WOW this is the first time I've ever seen movement in my readings. My CH is 317 & my CYA is 93. Now my pump has only been running for about 3 hrs. so that will change I'm sure. But it is really encouraging. The pump is still running now and I'm going to run it all night and take another test tomorrow.

    BTW...on that TF-100 Test Kit I see that there are 5 additional options to buy with the kit. Do I need those as well?
    They are:
    Options
    http://tftestkits.net/TF-100-Test-Kit-p4.html
    1. The Speedstir - I thought this little device was somewhat frivolous until I got one for my kit and started using it....Wow! It really makes the tests more accurate and precise.
    2. Borates Test Strips - If you use borates in your pool, or plan to, these strips will provide you adequate accuracy to keep your borates around the 50ppm recommended mark.
    3. Salt Test Strips - If you have a salt pool, testing the salt content of your pool water is very important.
    4. Taylor K-1766 Salt Test - For those with salt pools and wanting more precision than the Salt strips can provide.
    5. The "XL" option - Last year, we sold a TF-100XL kit , whose only difference was double the volume of the two most expensive reagents. It was really a good way for people with green pools (algae) or performing baquacil conversion to get the extra testing materials they needed and save some money doing so. This year, we have simply included those extra ingredients into the XL option rather than describe it as a different kit.
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    By using the hose in the deep end and the water overflowing out the opposite end, it's doing a pretty good job at exchanging the water.

    I'd definitely get the SpeedStir. You won't believe how much difference it makes. I've never heard anyone that wishes they hadn't gotten one once they have it.

    Since you have a salt pool I suggest the salt strips or the K-1766 drop kit. I personally like the drop kit but the strips are probably fine for most folks. I wouldn't worry about the rest.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/Όhp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    OK thanks Bama.
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Would love any comments of where I am right now.

    Been very busy on the pool doing the things mentioned above. Won't get my TF-100 kit until Wed. so I can't run a FAS/DPD test yet.
    My numbers when I started:
    FCI - 1.48, TCL - 1.70, pH - 7.4, TA 96, CH - 476, CYA 104 Salinity 2,800 SWG OFF

    Current numbers as of 12-14
    FCI - 2.38 TCL - 2.55 pH - 7.6 TA - 94 CH - 348 CYA - 84 Salinity 2,100 SWG OFF 56 degrees (temp)

    So I'm definitely heading in the right direction. I put these figures in pool math and it said to add 4oz. acid, aerate and replace 14% more water, so that's what I'm doing now.

    I'm not going to add any salt yet because I'm still diluting water to get my CH & CYA down a bit more so I don't want to waste the salt. Once my CH & CYA numbers are good, I'll bring into balance my pH & TA and THEN once I know that these 4 things are under control I'll add salt.

    I'm so glad I caught these problems just in the nick of time and I'm so fortunate I found TFP. I've been soaking in the info for 3 -4 days now, been making record keeping sheets, keeping notes, organizing bookmarks etc. for quick future reference.

    When I get my new TF-100 test kit on Wed. I'll perform a whole new battery of tests and post those results then.

    thx again,
    Martin
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little help

    For your SWG you want your CYA level to be 70-80 ppm.
    Have you looked at this pool-school/water_balance_saltwater_generator
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Yep I've read that AND a whole bunch more the past few days (lot of stuff to consume isn't it) and I know what my targets are supposed to be and am shooting for them now. The only thing I'm a little unsure about is the chlorine levels and how to achieve the proper levels but as I said above I can't run a FAS/DPD test yet so I posted what I have now with the kit I have now.

    Would like any input on my last numbers above too if you can.

    AND are my 2 Chlorine readings as they stand now OK for now till mid next week until I get my better test kit for FAS/DPD?

    thx
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    I would add 1/2 -1 jug of 8.25% bleach to raise up the FC and then give us all new test results when the TF-100 comes in.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    After I took new numbers yesterday, I then added 1/3 gal. of 8.25% liquid bleach and then later 2lbs. of borax to raise my pH which was 7.2 at that time.

    Here are my new numbers as of 12-15 @ 5am this morning:
    FCI 4.0 TCL 4.08 pH 7.5 TA 89 CH 317 CYA 73 Salinity 2100 SWG OFF 54degrees (temp)

    So this morning I added 20oz. acid to bring down ALY a little more, hopefully to 75 or so.

    I have a question about adding acid:
    When I added this acid I measured it out in a measuring cup, went to the deep end of the pool and in a circular motion drizzled the acid into the pool. Then turned on the pump, and aerators. Is that the right way to do this OR should I be walking down the side of the pool and adding it over several feet? Or does it matter?

    The other question I have is:
    Once this acid churns for awhile (about 6hrs.) I'm going to take another reading around noon or so to make sure my TA did come down. I'm ready now to add salt. I plan on adding 2 bags of Diamond Cyrstal Solar Naturals Water Softener Salt. I just want to make sure before I do that this, this isn't going to raise my CH or CYA numbers again is it? Will it mess with any other numbers? From what all I've been learning here the past few days I believe it won't BUT after all this work I've done to get to these numbers this week I don't want to make a mistake now.

    Thanks everyone.
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    question about adding acid: Perhaps a somewhat better choice is to kneel in front of an operating return and pour the acid slowly in front of that return. The acid is instantly diluted and quickly distributed evenly around you pool. Also, you are not walking around the pool with acid in your hands. Even distribution throughout your pool is easily accomplished in 30 -60 minutes.

    You need to review "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. CH and CYA are unaffected by the addition of acid. There is no relationship.

    Lowering TA by adding acid is not the correct method....it's only half of it. If you choose to lower TA and leave your pH at it's current level, you should follow the guide in Pool School on how to lower TA.....it also involves aeration.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    You need to review "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. CH and CYA are unaffected by the addition of acid. There is no relationship.

    Lowering TA by adding acid is not the correct method....it's only half of it. If you choose to lower TA and leave your pH at it's current level, you should follow the guide in Pool School on how to lower TA.....it also involves aeration.
    I know acid doesn't affect CH & CYA but my question was...I was wondering about adding my salt later today if that would.

    Ah yeah, I forgot about that lowering method.
    The acid/aeration process to lower TA:
    Add acid to lower your PH to between 7.0 and 7.2 (this also lowers TA)
    Aerate until PH rises to around 7.6 (the only way to raise PH without also raising TA)
    Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you reach the desired TA.

    Understood!

    Thanks
    duraleigh
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    I was wondering about adding my salt later today if that would
    Sorry, I misunderstood your post. The answer is the same, though, salt has no affect on CH or CYA.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: New to the forum & a 1yr. old salt pool, need a little h

    I guess I did the right thing by adding acid then. See if I'm thinking right here.

    So when I added that 20oz. (little more than a cup) of acid this morning I did add it in front of a return jet and that will lower my pH some. My test result on pH at that time was 7.5. After I added the acid I turned on my pump, vacuum & 3 surface aerators. So that sounds like I did the right thing by adding acid. So the next time I test I'll probably get a lower pH but just continue to aerate until the pH comes up.

    Is that right?
    10k gal., Hydrozzo finish, in ground chlorine pool, No Spa, No Heater, Built in Oct 2012 • TF-100 test kit • Jandy Cartridge Filter CV340 • Jandy VSFloPro Variable Speed Pump Model VS-FHP2.0 • Hayward TigerShark QC Robotic Pool Cleaner RC9990GR • Intermatic 100 watt Safety Transformer Model# PX 100 • Intermatic Freeze Sentry PF 1202T.

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