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Thread: Absorbic acid treatment issues

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    Absorbic acid treatment issues

    After taking the water out of my pool to do an acid wash the pool person suggested that because the walls where discolored a tan shade he would ruin the plaster if he used enough muriatic acid to remove the discoloration.

    We tested an area inside the spa wall and even with 75% sol'n of muriatic acid the tan discoloration remained. He left. Reading about doing the chewable Vit C test on TFP, I did the test on a small section of my pool steps. Remember no water in the pool. The tan came out and the plaster was a nice white shade, in fact brilliant.


    So I decided to refill the pool (20k Gal) and do the ascorbic acid treatment. Initially added 1lb of citric acid and 2.5 lbs of AA...was sold the wrong chemical at the pool supply store, that is why the initial dose was citric acid. Again reading lots on this subject on TFP, I believe that the blended two was not a problem.

    Probably my 1st mistake. The water reacted and became milky white....the ca plus what I think is ferrous ions precipitated out. Talked with a manufacturer of stain out and he suggested using his product which contained EDTA...Added 32 oz, but the precipitate remained...added another 32 oz and still no results. This is happening over 2-3 weeks. Then added 32 oz of oxalic acid.

    Did not do my homework...stupid idea. Also, I cleaned my filter 3 times and backwashed numerous times.. The milky white became a little less, but still can't see thur to the bottom of my 9ft deep end. When cleaning and catching the grey/white caulky substance from my filters I thought I was making progress.

    Since putting fresh water in the pool my Cl and CYA were zero. My Ca was 150....TA 100.....Ph 7.2. After adding the above chemicals the Ph dropped to 6.8...only change.

    Lastly I put 1.5 ilbs of Alum to floc the water, some floc appeared but not enough to clear the water. Lastly, removed all the water from my spa, refilled with fresh and the milky white reappeared. I seems the ca carbonate or ca Oxlate with fe is attached to the pool walls...the discolration did not appear after I put water in the spa..

    Even if I dump all 20k gals of water, I believe the issue will remain...until I get the precipitate off the pool walls....especially the Fe.

    Anyone who has recently had success with AA and precipitates pls help!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Welcome to TFP !
    I don't have any experience with AA treatment, but somebody will be along to help you out.
    Hope you enjoy the forum !
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    To me, it sounds like you need to do a correct AA treatment.....starting from scratch. What city and state do you live in? (climate)

    I would not put anything else in your pool until you decide a plan where you can be more assured of the outcome (no clarifier or floc, please)
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Yes you are correct....nothing goes in without knowing what I got going on....do u know of any labs any labs that do complete chem analysis beside cl, cya, etc....I live in S Cal, naer ventura co....weather is warm daily, but chills at nite. I have put no cl or CYA in the pool since algae is now not an issue. The water remains as is, till I get a definitive chemistry makeup, which may not be easy. I called 6 different large labs who do water analysis and they all referred me to someone else. They do only large business types. Thanks for u're reply.

    PS Do they sell the type of tests I can do myself......ca oxlate? Ca Carbonate? Free fe......AA.....edta....etc

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    You need one of the Recommended Test Kits and that will allow you to test for everything you need to get your pool back under control.

    Sounds like at this point you have been flying blind. We teach to never add anything to your pool unless it needs it and you understand what it is going to do.

    I am not sure what most of the things you listed in your past post are that you want to test ... so likely there is no reason to test for them.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    jblizzle...thanks for your reply. I use Taylor K-2006 for all of my test. In this situation, and from all of the AA info I found on TFP regarding the procedure, and using fresh water after my refill before adding any chemicals, the Ph was 7.2.....Ca hardness at 150...and TA at 100 all appear to be within normal range, although the Ca should be higher. These are the readings after introducing AA to the pool system. I believe the Ph and TA were correct prior to using the AA treatment. The pool's general chemistry makeup seems correct. The precipitate occurred after I added too much of AA/citric acid. By adding Cl and CYA at this time might make the issue more difficult to work out. Since the water temperature in S Cal is now in the mid 50's I am not too concerned about algae growth. One last though , my phosphate level, test done at Leslie's, in approximately 100.
    Logically, if the general chemistry parameters are within acceptable range, I felt that doing lab tests for the unknowns would steer me in the right direction. Cleaned my filters today that had lots of ca buildup....tomorrow I am going to by-pass the filter and vacuum the bottom of the pool. I will try to catch as much sediment as possible with a slime bag. Thanks for your direction.

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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Well the pool has cleared of precipitate, after about 20 days. Perhaps the amount of precipitate had to do with the amount of Fe on the walls of the pool after 8 yrs of accumulation. I think that with the brick facade around the pool, 2-3 ft high, and with the constant landscape watering dripping over the colored grout/ bull nose brick, the Fe deposits where left behind on the plaster. Waiting for the Ca/Fe to filter out, I now have algae thru out the pool, some places rather thick. I have added Polyquat60, approx 32oz to 20K gal of water and hope for clearing over the next several days. I will then add Absorbic acid, to put the Fe ions back in circulation that have reattached to some of the pool surfaces. From readings on TFP. I will add Jack's Purple Stuff 1st. than do the AA treatment. If the algae doesn't clear, should I bring up the CYA up, then add Cl to remove as much algae as possible...hopefully the Polyquat60 will do the job....or should I add more Polyquat 60 to continue that way....? I am in no hurry, but I am so close.... For those who will do this, continuously backwashing and cleaning the filters is really the only way to get rid of the Ca precipiate deposits. It takes a while. Thanks for any reply and thanks to the TPC folks for the AA treatment...it probably saved me a ton of money, as opposed to doing a re-plaster...plus acid wash that would not work on my surface. Merry Christmas

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    The Poly 60 is meant as insurance to prevent algae from starting it will not kill and defeat algae. Now that you see algae, you need to go through the SLAM Process and that requires one of the Recommended Test Kits.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Wow.....thanks for that..If I have already added the Polyquat 60, I can go ahead and do the slam process? When the algae is removed, than I can do the additional AA treatment to put the Fe back in solution, even tho the AA will "eat up" the Cl. So, by re-introducing the polyquat 60, after the Slam process, the algae should be less of a problem, or no problem? Again, thks for the big heads up.....and direction...

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    I think you said what I understand the correct process to be ...
    You need to defeat the algae first. The SLAM process may result in the stains returning.
    If so, after the algae is gone, put the Poly 60 in the water do the AA treatment and hopefully the Poly will prevent the algae while the FC is low for the AA.

    Have you read this and the link within? pool-school/metal%20stains
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Thanks...I have read almost every piece of info I can find on this site.....there is so much info it gets a little confusing....but I will do the SLAM....do the AA...add the Polyquat to keep the pool, algae free....
    hopefully, and add the Jack's Magic purple to keep the Fe in sol'n....I will re-read all of the info u suggested. Being new to this site, there is a lot of great material on this subject....every pool is somewhat different, as is the area where it is located....but overall, this site is a great public service, thks...when I am finished on this exercise I plan on making a small donation to help it along....

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    jblizzle...well the Slam worked, the pool is clear and the walls appear to be iron free....Should I wait until the FC comes down to 1-2, now at 18 plus, before I do the additional AA treatment ? Also my TA dropped to 90 so I will have to adjust that...should I adjust prior to AA treatment, as with CYA which is @ 20...Lastly, I put 32 oz of Jack's purple stuff in to keep Fe in sol'n. Prior to doing the AA treatment I will also add Polyquat 60 as suggested to keep any further algae away.....Again thanks for your help on hopefully this final lap. (I also did the FC night before and next day ck...the CC was zero thus all algae was depleted)

    Happy Holidays

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Wait. Did you follow the SLAM process and pass the 3 tests to stop? Why is the FC so high? With a CYA of 20, the FC should only have been at 10ppm for the SLAM process.

    That TA is fine.

    I think I would let the FC drift down and the do more AA if required ... Although you said the walls looked clear?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    You are correct, I think...I used the table by Chem Geek and took 60% of the CYA value because of the degree of mustard algae I had in the pool...the CYA value I used was closer to 30+, so that is why the FC is that high. Does it make a large difference for CL to be that high for that short period of time? Can I send a pic to you on the pool walls...I am not sure if I can lift the stains that I see...do not know if they are AA treatable....again thks fpr trh speedy reply...

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Update...pool is bright and clear...a little bit of Fe coloring is newly found on spa/entry steps and shallow end near steps and wall....re treated with small amount of AA and discoloration came up...also the Free Cl level dropped quickly....now trying to balance the Cl level and keeping the Fe off the walls. Have used Jack's purple stuff to try to keep the Fe in solution...any other suggestion on getting either rid of or keeping the Fe in solution? I read on the sight using Al Chloride works to dissipate the Fe....if so, any suggestions on how to treat the pool so as to keep all else in balance?

    Thanks for the help....

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Jblizzle
    now that the pool water is clear and the surface appears to be Fe clear, would NOW be a good time to do a" no drain acid wash"?
    There is lots of staining streaks in the deep end of the pool and thru out the floor ....the AA treatment I did , did a great job of removing the Fe ...now I have to do an acid wash to remove all of the other stains.If u could refer me to a concise set of instructions to use to do the treatment that would be great. I have read several posts ...but, do u think this is a good idea to do now....water temp is in high 50,s
    Cya at 30...Ph 7.4...CH 150...TA 100...Cl is difficult to get to 4 FC and stay there!

    Thanks

    Dave

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    I have no experience with them and do not think there is a detailed instruction list on the forum, unless it is buried in a post somewhere.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    "No drain acid wash"....has been posted on TFP and United Chem Corp has a product group dedicated to the treatment....ck it out!
    Do a search on TFP and it will give a couple of posts.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Interesting FC development...since doing the AA treatment and bringing the chemistries up to balance, I am having trouble keeping the FC at or near the 2- range. I have been using Jack's purple stuff to combat the free Fe from going back on the walls; however, ck'ing the FC almost every day and in the evening, it is dissipating very quickly.....I have been adding Cl (12%) to keep it at s protective level. Also, I decided to return to using the Tri Chlor tabs to see if it would support keeping Cl in the pool...I know that will take time, but am trying to head off any algae issues.....

    Any suggestions?.......The pool was SLAMMed and appeared to have been algae free when done over 10 days ago....

    CYA 30...TA 120....Ph dropped to 7.2...Ca 150...Daytime temp...75 degrees and very sunny.

    Thanks

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Absorbic acid treatment issues

    Quote Originally Posted by papagamma
    Interesting FC development...since doing the AA treatment and bringing the chemistries up to balance, I am having trouble keeping the FC at or near the 2- range. I have been using Jack's purple stuff to combat the free Fe from going back on the walls; however, ck'ing the FC almost every day and in the evening, it is dissipating very quickly.....I have been adding Cl (12%) to keep it at s protective level. Also, I decided to return to using the Tri Chlor tabs to see if it would support keeping Cl in the pool...I know that will take time, but am trying to head off any algae issues.....

    Any suggestions?.......The pool was SLAMMed and appeared to have been algae free when done over 10 days ago....

    CYA 30...TA 120....Ph dropped to 7.2...Ca 150...Daytime temp...75 degrees and very sunny.

    Thanks
    After the AA treatment, there will tend to be excess chlorine demand at first, as the chlorine and any remaining ascorbic acid destroy each other. Using the Trichlor tabs to slowly add FC and increase CYA is fine. It will also help keep the pH in the lower range to help prevent restaining.

    Be sure to keep count of the # of tabs you use so you can track the CYA addition.

    If you do an OCLT you can rule out (or in) the presence of organics causing any of the chlorine demand.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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