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Thread: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little info

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    Just about to get started with BBB need just a little info

    Hey Guys,

    I'm about to have my pool re-plastered and get started running my pool with the BBB method. The current plaster is in rough shape but thats about to change. I have replaced pretty much the whole pumping station (Valves, Pump Motor, Filter and Heater) and gathered a K2006 Testing kit along with a manual vacuum, leaf rake and a pool brush (i have a combo steel/nylon and a nylon whale tale). Right now everything in my pool is out of whack. The CYA is off the charts (>200), the PH is 8 and yesterday it was @ 0 FC (I could list off all the results but its getting re-plastered in a week so it probably doesn't matter) Long story short I'm about to fire my pool guy...

    We decided to go with a dark colored QuartzScape from a local pool builder that comes highly recommended. The PB said I need to have someone help me with the initial startup (I need to clarify if he means the entire startup or just the after care) but I think I might be able to handle it myself (If I'm crazy I'm sure I can find a pro) I forgot to ask what startup method he uses but I'll be sure to ask next time we speak.

    A little info about the pool:
    My pool is an in ground freeform gunite pool, its about ~18k Gallons it has a ~600 Gallon attached spa (I'll use the water meter to get a closer number on the actual capacity once its time to re-fill the pool.)
    The Skimmer was replaced ~2 months ago
    We're installing a Pentair SMBW 4060 DE Filter tomorrow.
    I have a 3/4HP Whisperflo WFE-3 with a brand new motor
    Pentair 400k BTU heater

    Onto the Questions....

    1.) I have a nice commercial grade vacuum with wheels but its too big/unwieldy for steps and in the spa. Anyone have a recommendation for a small vacuum head for the steps/spa?
    2.) My Vacuum Hose has a small leak, I can hear it sucking air ever once in a while (its the only piece of workable equipment that came with the pool, everything else was either broken or trashed). Its not bad (ex its not causing the pump to suck a ton of air or anything) is this a big deal or is it safe to ignore for a while?
    3.) I know I need to stock up on Bleach and Baking Soda but I have no idea how much to get for an pool roughly my size especially after a fresh re-plaster... If I can avoid any emergency trips to the store that would be nice
    4.) What other Chemicals should I have on hand for a freshly plastered pool?
    5.) I'm pretty handy and a fast learner but am I crazy to try to tackle startup on my own?

    Any suggestions for equipment/tools that will make life easier? Short of a robot (Which I totally want but it was that or live with a 30 year old filter) and a SpeedStir (which is already in the mail) I'm not opposed to throwing a little money at the pool to make life easier when it comes to maintenance.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.
    15,500 gallon outdoor in-ground 17'x35' quartz pool w/ attached spa; Pentair WhisperFlo WFE-3 pump (3/4hp); Pentair SMBW4060 DE Filter (58sf, 160Gpm), Pentair MasterTemp Heater (400k BTU/hr) Taylor K-2006 test kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Welcome, I don't have much first hand experience with plaster pools, but do know that they require careful monitoring and adjustment for the first month or so after filling, and generally you can't get in them for a week or so after the plaster gets wet for the first time. I will leave it to those with more first hand experience to answer your plaster questions. As to general suggestions on things to get, with money being an object, consider getting one of the made in china cheap kreepy krualy clone suction side cleaners that are often sold on ebay in the $70-$90 ballpark until you can save up for a good robot cleaner. Sure they are not as good as the better $200-$300+ name brand cleaners, but most of their issues involve being built from cheaper materials, no replacement parts available, and generally shorter life spans (1-2 seasons with patching normally).

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Welcome to the forum.

    1. For the places my cleaner won't get to (steps, etc.) I have a brush and simply brush the debris off the steps onto the pool floor so the vac can get it.

    2. If it is only sucking a small amount of air, that's fine. That said, even the smallest air leaks start to deteriorate the efficiency of your pump. If you can hear where it's leaking maybe you could patch it. Duct tape is a true miracle.

    3. The only items I would purchase are maybe 10-20 gallons of Bleach and a gallon or two of muriatic acid. You may not need anything else.

    4. Same as #3

    5. Not at all. There are articles in Pool School to get you going and hundreds of people here on the forum who will help.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    duraleigh has is right on point 3 - new plaster needs lots of muratic acid, I bought quite a few cases, doesn't go bad so what the heck if you have the room. Bleach is a normal process - just make sure you purchase lots of Calcium too - if they are NOT doing the start up, then you will have a newly filled pool with ? hose water or trucked in water ? and new plaster will literally suck the plaster for it and you will get pitting. I found the brushing every day for a week or two (can't use a robot) to be a pain at first until my arms were getting stronger and defined, then I thought new exercise regiment . This sight will help you, lots of experienced folks that have been there done it (not always right), and can guide you. Treat the pool as a newly filled pool, with a new plaster that is very delicate for the first month, then very high maintenance for the next year, after that with the BBB years (and I mean extended years) of total pool enjoyment - good luck.
    13200 gal, IG, plaster, built 1985, replastered 2012, Mytilus MA-90C cartridge filter, 2716 Blue Line In-ground Pump and Motor (1 HP), (manual clean/brush/test with Taylor K-2006, TFP since 2012) in Northwest Houston TX

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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Prior to purchasing Calcium Chloride, I would test the fill water for CH. It is possible your fill water has enough already in it that you don't need it.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Nothing to add except Howdy, neighbor.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Welcome to TFP!

    Just wanted to confirm again. What we teach is only adding what the pool needs. So you need to get it filled and circulated, then test the water, then you will know what it needs.

    You will certainly need bleach and stabilizer and likely acid, but beyond that you need to test your water.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Confirm, THAT EASY, in fact - When I got the new plaster job in October of 2012 - promised myself I was going to the BBB, but doing pool maintenance for years, it is hard to do something that just doesn't fit what you have been taught all those years. this last summer was the last draw, had to drain pool three times cause the CYA level kept going up, spending too much on chlorine, water, time (to drain and refill), I threw everything away, only do bleach, baking soda, sometimes borax and calcium. Why, less time fussin and way more time funnin - it looks, feels, cleans, EASIER than I would have thought possible. I am prepping my pool for retirement, dummying it down, how can this not work now and in the future for savings. Just do it, you will not regret it - you have friends on this site that will talk you down and get you fixed on any issues. But don't forget you still need to brush and clean, but what an hour a week? great exercise, fresh air, and dream of when I can swim again.
    13200 gal, IG, plaster, built 1985, replastered 2012, Mytilus MA-90C cartridge filter, 2716 Blue Line In-ground Pump and Motor (1 HP), (manual clean/brush/test with Taylor K-2006, TFP since 2012) in Northwest Houston TX

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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Ok here is an update guys, We're going to start having the pool re-plastered with quartz starting next Thursday (I'll open a thread in the under construction section when we get started). After speaking with the builder I have a better understanding as towards what to expect. We're getting a killer deal on the pool but there is a catch. The guy doing our pool is just the applicator and doesn't do anything as far as the fill/startup. We're getting our pool drained, stripped to the gunite, having the spa raised 12" adding two jets to the spa, re-plastering and re-tiling the pool and spa with our choice of QuartzScapes and replacing the entire concrete deck around the pool for an even $10K.

    The Builder was recommended to me by three separate people as one of the best plaster guys around so I am confident that he does quality work.

    I have been reading about needing to test the tap water and that CH, pH and TA are all critical for startup. Currently my tap water is @ 170ppm CH, 180ppm TA and the pH is ~7.5

    Since the pool is ~ 18k gallons I'm guessing it wouldn't be a bad idea to get ~ 10 gallons on Muriatic Acid and a few big boxes on Baking soda to start alongside a nice stockpile of Clorox and some liquid CYA (I just bought 25lbs of DE because I know I'm going to go through it... I believe I am supposed to also add a "sequestering agent" on day one. Is this something I could just walk into any pool store and ask for? NPT's startup guide recommends that I get my TA to 80ppm on day one. Is this going to be some sort of epic battle to get the TA down or? How quickly can I expect to have to clean out the filter? We just installed a Pentair SMBW 4060 which is purposely oversized for our pool (recommended by our equipment installer). I am also under the impression that I will have to brush down the pool 2x a day for the first week which isn't much of a problem but I'm under the impression that my standard gunite vacuum with wheels is no bueno for the first month and was curious if anyone had any suggestions for a brush vacuum (preferably something available from amazon).

    Any other tips for someone thats about to jump in with both feet?
    15,500 gallon outdoor in-ground 17'x35' quartz pool w/ attached spa; Pentair WhisperFlo WFE-3 pump (3/4hp); Pentair SMBW4060 DE Filter (58sf, 160Gpm), Pentair MasterTemp Heater (400k BTU/hr) Taylor K-2006 test kit

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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Great instructions on start up on NPT site - remember brush (no whales), nothing with wheels for 2 weeks - 1 month, it will blemish the finish, scratch and mare, that means no vacuum, no autorobot, just brushing. Use a skimmer to pick up leaves and bugs and stuff. I can't speak to the chemicals, but that seems sound - I will leave to the professionals to speak of this. FYI: if you are taking down to the gunite, have the contractor look at all your eyeball valves for replacement and/or upgrade - follow this feed from me earlier this year - apparently no on bothered to tell me to upgrade, plus they never threaded the pipe to the eyeballs, so had a leak for months. http://www.troublefreepool.com/retur...ps-t59874.html.
    13200 gal, IG, plaster, built 1985, replastered 2012, Mytilus MA-90C cartridge filter, 2716 Blue Line In-ground Pump and Motor (1 HP), (manual clean/brush/test with Taylor K-2006, TFP since 2012) in Northwest Houston TX

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Your fill water already has a high TA, so why would you need to buy baking soda? Unless you are planning to do a bi-carb startup. There are some great write-ups in the forum on how to do that, one from OnBalance and some others who actually did it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    I kinda figured that the TA would end up all over the map because of new plaster... If i dont need it then great!!!
    15,500 gallon outdoor in-ground 17'x35' quartz pool w/ attached spa; Pentair WhisperFlo WFE-3 pump (3/4hp); Pentair SMBW4060 DE Filter (58sf, 160Gpm), Pentair MasterTemp Heater (400k BTU/hr) Taylor K-2006 test kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Since you are in charge of the start-up. I would suggest seriously considering the Bi-carb start-up. I think it is a little more work, but ends up with a better/stronger finish:
    a-bicarb-start-up-guide-for-tfp-members-t62261.html

    Some other links as well:
    the-bicarb-start-up-and-why-it-works-t40648.html
    my-experience-with-the-bicarb-start-up-t59075.html
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Just about to get started with BBB need just a little in

    Investigating now!
    15,500 gallon outdoor in-ground 17'x35' quartz pool w/ attached spa; Pentair WhisperFlo WFE-3 pump (3/4hp); Pentair SMBW4060 DE Filter (58sf, 160Gpm), Pentair MasterTemp Heater (400k BTU/hr) Taylor K-2006 test kit

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