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Thread: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

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    Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    We are currently in the process of getting quotes for a new pool build in Florida.
    One of the builders who uses Jandy products is steering us toward a cartridge filter as apposed to a DE filter stating that when they "changed the codes last year. The problem is not with the DE filter it is with the multi port valve. The new pumps produce more water the the valve can handle which will lead to cracks and leaks in the multi port valve. A sharp warranty tech will not cover this under the warranty".

    I am very confused. Is this an issue just with the Jandy products or something potentially seen with all multiport valves and variable speed pumps? Thanks for any help you can provide.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    I have never heard of such a thing and does not make sense.
    BTW to save money on electricity, you would not want to be running at that high of a speed / flow rate anyway (unless you need it for spa or water features).

    The multi-valves are VERY nice in my opinion as they give you the flexibility to run in different modes, specifically recirculation (skip the filter) or pumping directly to waste.

    Makes me wonder what other potential non-sense they are throwing at you.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    I haven't heard of that either. I'm up in New England, but just had a new pool put in with a multiport and a Hayward DE60 filter, along with a TriStar 2" 3/4HP motor. No one said anything about not doing DE with a mp and I talked to 3 companies before deciding on the company I went with.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    One of the problems with VS pumps that people have experienced is due to operating the pump at full speed on small plumbing which is never a good idea. As long as the pump speed is limited to reasonable levels and the filter pressure is kept below 20 PSI, there should not be an issue with the multi-port. Some VS pumps are quite large so care must be taken when operating on small plumbing.

    However, if a VS Pump (e.g. Intelliflo) is run at FULL speed on a 1.5" multiport valve and 1.5" plumbing, this would have a lot of head loss and the pressure would be very high going through the multi-port valve. This could cause the spider gasket to fail or just leak. So I can see this being a problem but only if the pump is run at full speed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    Interesting point on pressure. I should add in my case, it's all 2" plumbing.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh
    Interesting point on pressure. I should add in my case, it's all 2" plumbing.
    You only have a 3/4 HP motor .... the bigger VS pump are approaching 3HP ... and ever needing that much power is pretty rare.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    3HP is one big pump!
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    I believe it is a 1 HP pump and the quote states "1.5" to 3" sch. 40 PVC piping". I don't understand exactly what that means but can appreciate Mark's comment above about the pressure. I don't understand exactly how the variable speed pumps determine what speed to run at.

    Thank you all for your replies.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    The user sets the speeds for the VS to run at ... do it wrong and it may run at higher speeds than it should for the plumbing size. Certainly need to set the max RPM so that in priming mode it does not run too fast.

    The few that have flow meters allow you to set the flow rate and it automatically adjusts the rpm to maintain that flow rate ... set the flow rate too high based on your systems head loss and the pump will try to run a too high of a speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    My understanding is that the highest pressure a pool pump can produce can not be above 50 psi, which is what most all pool equipment is rated at. Mark can correct me if I'm wrong.

    I looked at the EPump and it's max head is about 37 psig (85' head).
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    That's true and the backwash valves should be able to handle that pressure but they are valves that have o-rings and gaskets that can leak and it is more likely to leak at higher pressure than lower pressure. Water velocity through the valve could also have a detrimental effect. I was trying to speculate on why they were seeing more backwash valve failures with VS pumps and that is the only thing I can think of.

    One more factor could be water hammer. The pressure wave created by a larger pump could also damage seals/gaskets.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Builder recommending no DE filter because of multiport

    I wasn't thinking about water hammer and that can definitely rip apart stuff at a much lower pressure than the working pressure.

    Now, having said all that. My preference would be a large cartridge filter partly because of the lower head a cartridge has. The plumbing can also be configured so you have a waste port in case you ever need it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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