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Thread: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

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    Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Is there a suction side cleaner that will handle leaves? I really want something like a Polaris with a bag on top, or something that will bag the leaves, but everything I see is pressure side. My returns are all at one end of a very large pool, the only port I have in the middle is suction side. I don't care if it won't entirely keep the pool clean, I have a robot for that, I just need the leaves gone.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    There are leaf canisters that are added inline with the hose that catches the leaves before reaching the skimmer or the pump that should be used with ANY of the suction cleaners. Some are bigger than others. I "think" the Hayward is pretty big, but am not 100% sure I am remembering correctly.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Thank you, that little bit of info helped me find what you are talking about. A necessary item for me for sure.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH
    A necessary item for me for sure.
    I would agree with that based on the pictures I saw in your other thread
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    I use a leaf canister with a suction side cleaner (ThePoolCleaner) and it works pretty well. I would recommend the larger of the two canisters.

    http://www.amazon.com/W530-Capacity-Lea ... B001E2D62W
    Mark
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Ordered the 4 wheel drive suction side Pool Cleaner, and the big canister. If this thing works out well enough, I might even retire the robot (sell it).
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    So the plaster has been brushed, cleaned, and cured enough that I've been told the cleaner can go in. Tried the cleaner today on the suction port. Not enough suction at low speed. Cranked the pump up to 90 gpm, which shot the gauge on the filter to 25 psi, and still not enough. Shut it all down, closed back off the suction port on the pool, attached the cleaner to the throat of the skimmer (I only have one skimmer) and not enough suction on low speed. Changed the settings on my pump to run only 12 hours per day but still turn over the pool once per day, this again shot the filter PSI up over where I normally ran when I had a 1 speed pump, somewhere around 28 psi, and there's still only about half the suction required by the cleaner to get it running at the right RPM. Poolvergnuegen says there should be enough to turn the right front tire at 11-15 RPM. I'm maybe getting 4 or 5 RPM. It is driving right over leaves, maybe picking up 10% of what it runs over. I guess it's going back.

    Now I need to find a robot that can handle leaves. My existing Dolphin robot easily out-cleans the Poolvergnuegen, but will choke on just a few leaves.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Now I need to find a robot that can handle leaves.
    The question is always, "How many?"

    My dolphin premier will likely pick up about 100 white oak leaves but that pretty much fills it up. I use the optional "oversized debris bag"
    Dave S.
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    During the bad months (which never seem to end) I use this leaf bagger thing:
    http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Automat ... 20144.html

    It's just a matter of keeping it clean the rest of the time. Of course I'd like to see something as efficient as the pressure side Kreepy Krauly my friend has in his 16,000 gallon pool, but that's so much smaller than mine, they don't ever get the volume.

    So just as my black walnut gets done shedding, then the red oaks start to drop. And right now I have a pine tree dropping needles too.

    I just went and checked on the Pool Cleaner, it had two leaves stuck in its mouth, which kept the wheels from turning at all. There really was quite a bit of suction there, it just does not seem like a big enough opening to be used for leaves.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    I will also mention that it never crawled out of the deep end of the pool.

    Here are pictures of the pool's current state (see the net? I was out there this morning!) This is far too big a job for the little Pool Cleaner - even the 4x4 one.





    Here's the Pool Cleaner's little mouth compared to my finger and a standard black walnut tree leaf. The red oak leaves are a whole lot bigger, so when it drops it's going to be a bigger problem. My robot at least has two large slots for leaves.



    The little Pool Skim, although I think it's overpriced, just keeps on doing its job, even with the pump running at 350 RPM. The bag is a cinch to empty too, it's a ring you pinch with your finger and thumb to release and re-attach.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Those are about the same size as my Chinese Elm that is right next to the pool. Also, the amount a leaves isn't too bad. I have had far worse. However, the leaves clumped together and still attached to steams could be an issues. When I get too many leaves on the bottom and they start to clump together, I will use the leaf rake to remove most of the leaves out of the pool. As long as there are single leaves, they can fold going through the cleaner. I have had larger leaves from a Phontia end up in the cleaner basket so I know it get them through. But again, if you have a lot of clumping, then the likelihood of clogging is much greater.

    One more thing. If you set your RPM too low, the suction will be too low and the cleaner might not be strong enough to get the larger leaves. Have you timed the wheel spin? It should be close to 12 RPM for best cleaning.
    Mark
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    I did time it. I posted that up above. I do believe the suction is too low, but as I said above I am at a loss how to get any more suction to the device. Even with the pump at a very high speed, it's not getting enough suction to work properly. I have a HUGE amount of water coming back out the returns, but the cleaner is still not happy.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    This does not make sense, if you can crank the pump up and get high flow rates returning to the pool and show high pressure, then the water has to be getting sucked from somewhere. I can not see how you are not getting enough suction through the cleaner

    You are able to isolate a single suction line right?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH
    So the plaster has been brushed, cleaned, and cured enough that I've been told the cleaner can go in. Tried the cleaner today on the suction port. Not enough suction at low speed. Cranked the pump up to 90 gpm, which shot the gauge on the filter to 25 psi, and still not enough. Shut it all down, closed back off the suction port on the pool, attached the cleaner to the throat of the skimmer (I only have one skimmer) and not enough suction on low speed. Changed the settings on my pump to run only 12 hours per day but still turn over the pool once per day, this again shot the filter PSI up over where I normally ran when I had a 1 speed pump, somewhere around 28 psi, and there's still only about half the suction required by the cleaner to get it running at the right RPM. Poolvergnuegen says there should be enough to turn the right front tire at 11-15 RPM. I'm maybe getting 4 or 5 RPM. It is driving right over leaves, maybe picking up 10% of what it runs over. I guess it's going back.

    Now I need to find a robot that can handle leaves. My existing Dolphin robot easily out-cleans the Poolvergnuegen, but will choke on just a few leaves.
    Sorry, I missed this one. But I too do not understand why you are not getting enough suction. Is there another suction path (main drain)? Also, did you check the bypass, if that has tripped it will bypass nearly all of the water around the cleaner.

    Also, check the suction line to see if it is clogged with leaves.

    BTW, I can easily get 4-5 RPM on low speed of my 1/2 HP two speed pump so there is definitely something wrong with your setup.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    There is a main drain. I don't have any valves or bypasses, so it may just be there's no way to make this work for me. Checked the lines, no clogs.

    So, the brief is that I have one skimmer and one main drain, plumbed together, and one return pipe from the pool to the pump.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    I thought you also said you have a dedicated suction port in addition to the skimmer and the floor drain?

    So you have only 1 pipe that enters the front of the pump? Is the floor plumbed into the bottom of the skimmer?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    The bypass valve is the valve that is on the end of the cleaner hose.

    It looks like this:


    If it opens, then it bypasses the flow around the cleaner.

    Also, you may need to plug the main drain line while the cleaner is used. Usually, there is a door over the main drain hole that can be adjusted for flow.
    Mark
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Yes there is also a dedicated suction line, but it's also plumbed to the skimmer. I capped it back off.

    I don't have the bypass valve hooked up inline. It's on my desk.

    The main drain line is plumbed directly into the same copper as the skimmer. It doesn't go up to the skimmer then around, there's no way to cap it.

    My goal was to have everything work at once, but I see now that isn't going to work.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH
    The main drain line is plumbed directly into the same copper as the skimmer. It doesn't go up to the skimmer then around, there's no way to cap it.
    Copper? Your PB used copper on a new pool?


    The fact you cannot shut off the main drain could be causing the problem. Any way to change that at this point? The whole setup sounds very odd.
    Mark
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    Re: Suction side cleaner for leaves?

    The pool was built in the 50s ... it was only a recent remodel of the interior.

    I too wonder how hard it would be to add a valve between the floor and skimmer ... do you know where they are tied together?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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