how often to SHOCK ?

[dolphin]

the PoolMath is identical to the 'Pool Calculator' i use ( http://www.poolcalculator.com/).
is it a newer version?
At any rate, i swear by its calculations, definitions and tips

 

[linen]

They are slightly different. Use PoolMath it is updated and has slightly higher FC targets. The poolcalculator is not longer supported.

 

[chem geek]

The Cl cant keep up with the dirt demand.

I've written this before, but you still aren't understanding it. Chlorine does nothing to dirt and dust in terms of making the water clear. Dirt and dust need to be filtered out (some parts of dirt, the humic acids, can be partially oxidized, but it will still mostly make the water cloudy and needs to be filtered out). The primary effect on clarity from chlorine is in preventing algae growth since some algae growth can make the water look dull/cloudy.

If you get a lot of dirt or dust in your pool and want to keep it clear, you need to run your pump longer to increase the number of turnovers and/or improve your filtration efficiency on each pass. You have a sand filter and usually that's enough to have water be clear but if you are picky you can see about how to Add DE to a Sand Filter.

 

[dolphin]

i understand that it wont oxidize minerals etc ... but what about the micro - organisms it carries, the dust isn't always mineral anyway, we have a lot of foliage that decays in our area that looks like dirt but its actually plants decomposing... this 'is' a big problem in our area as this stuff lands in the pool, on the deck.
So by dirt demand, that is what i meant...
Secondly,
The PoolMath looks identical to the pool calculator wth the exception that you can't click on the meanings i,e TA, CL , CH etc.

 

[dolphin]

you didnt have to post the last comment, you had already told me cl doesn't erode or oxidize non-organics. Like i said in the last post, we have more than just 1 type of dirt lol

 

[dolphin]

so the term dirt demand has no effect on chlorine is this what your trying to tell me? the dirt is clean bacteria (whatever is in there) free? lol

 

[dolphin]

come and have a look at the pool where we used to have a palapa directly overhead and tell me that dirt demand doesn't have an effect on CL. So much Crud ( dirt ) was flacking off of it and falling into the pool we had to remove it, and i'm talking about, well, dirt! what else can i say

 

[dolphin]

a side from chemgeeks comment...And i'm going to repeat the original question..
with dust, dirt, blowing into the pool, or being tracked in by bathers from a dirty deck. Does this put a 'load' on Cl ?
What i'm saying is this: if my CYA is 30 , Cl 4 to 7, could the chlorine handle all that stuff going in ( i wont mention dirt demand again, it'll just make chem geek angry again lol)

 

[ping]

Your reference to dirt is not what I would call dirt, but rather organics. I consider dirt being call soil and I believe you are calling dirt anything that is going into your pool.

If the "dirt" isn't cleaned out of the pool and is allowed to build up, then you might expect the pool needing more chlorine than normal. If the "dirt" was sprayed with fertilizers or such, then you might expect a higher demand of chorine.

Keeping the FC in the proper range will prevent algae, but you might have to add more chorine than normal. A good baseline for chorine usage is 2-3 ppm a day during the summer.

 

[chem geek]

Even some organics only create some demand, but they are still not fully oxidized by chlorine. Pollen is an example and leaves are another. They still need to be filtered out and you cannot and should not rely on chlorine to get rid of them. If your water is dull/cloudy from nascent algae growth because the proper FC/CYA ratio is not being maintained, then that would be one thing, but if it is due to poor circulation and filtration, then that is another. See 100 Reasons for Cloudy Swimming Pool Water.

The cloudiness from too low a chlorine level is due to algae being able to grow faster than chlorine can kill it. Most physical sources of cloudy water are not dealt with by chlorine. Chlorine primarily kills algae and bacteria, but bacteria are so easy to kill that they are not the cause for cloudiness when you have any chlorine in the pool. However, algae requires higher levels of active chlorine (FC/CYA ratio) to kill and some types of algae turn the water dull/cloudy rather than become visible as clumps of green (depends on the dispersion of the algae).

There are tens of thousands of pool owners on this forum (and many more who follow the forum but are not members or do not post) and we do not shock our pools regularly. There is no need if you properly maintain the FC/CYA level as measured from an accurate test kit.

 

[dolphin]

obviously, an outdoor pool is subjected to more stuff ( algae, bacteria algae laden dirt, whatever) then an indoor pool with freshly washed and filtered air i.e aquatic centers.
it has to be mathematical, relationship wise where more junk going in ( the aforementioned) will obviously require more chlorine.
Even if the sun never shined over my outdoor pool i'd be really surprised to see the water kept trouble free @ 0 CYA with 1.5 or 2 ppm levels it doesnt make any sense

 

[dolphin]

nascent algae is the more 'focus' of the topic because as soon as the water gets cloudy in the pool, it can be seen as a thin layer of wispy dust at the bottom of the pool when its swept up at night with the pool light on.
then with a day or 2 more not doing anything about it, green algae appears on the steps or elsewhere.
So ya, bacteria would be easy to get rid of but algae no.
lastly, knowing that algae is always so close to taking over the pool ( green algae), i always vacuum, and clean ANY vegetation / foreign matter out of the pool and strainers.
Like i said, i pool such as mine is a lot more subjective to cloudy water than an indoor pool is, taking the sun into consideration

 

[linen]

I wouldn't be surprised if you start maintaining ~ 50 ppm cya and also maintain the corresponding proper minimum FC (never below 4 ppm) and filter enough, you will have crystal clear water. Before that though, you may have to do the SLAM process to get rid of what algae you might already have.

 

[dolphin]

yea, i'm right in the middle of that process - Slamming. i'm actually nearing the end of it ( the 5 day).
i just finished brushing the pool tonight with the pool light on. The light gives me a perfect method of knowing if any wispy dead algae is remaining to be oxidized.
i WILL try the 50 ppm CYA @ 4 ~ 7 ppm CL to prevent AND at the same time OXIDIZE any algae that does fly in there.
Believe me, there has to be because the deck around the pool becomes green very quickly if i dont stay on top of it.
Thats what you get for having a pool in the humid tropics - the jungle wants to take over everything - BELIEVE ME!.
if i could incase the pool, filter the air, eliminate the sun then thats all that i would have to worry about 'loading up ' (or bogging down) the chlorine. just like overloading a car with too many people it has to be as simple as that right?
i know ( you probably know too) that the mistake here was sliding too confidently on the 'ideal chlorine levels' on the test tube.
Well not anymore. i'tll have to be what you just said in the last posting.
Theres just too much Crud blowing in, too much sun and not enough chlorine (or FC's) or none at all at the moment the sun is in its few hours of shining directly above

 

[linen]

If your organic load is that high such that it is challenging you at times to keep the minimum FC in the pool, you may want to keep your FC minimum even a little higher, maybe at ~12% of the cya level you have, so for 50 ppm cya an FC minimum of 6 ppm. This will give you a little "insurance" but because of the higher level, you will loose a bit more chlorine to the sun.

 

[dolphin]

yeah, your way of thinking is better compass heading i've heard so far.. I'm not saying the pool is right next to an open garbage pit but surprisingly, when you look at the surface of the water in such a way that it looks like the surface of a mirror, you CAN see just about anything that lands on the surface.. With our pool, i ponder how the heck the system can handle it all like a vacuum cleaner.
At any rate, i'll have to play with the numbers you just suggested and the 2nd to last previous post.
I'l lhave to brush at night to see if any wisp of algae start to build up. That might be a better way of indicating if the FC's are falling behind a little.
Watching for cloudy water might not be too precise as with the pool light on brushing the floor of the pool for sediment buildup, agree?

 

[linen]

I'l lhave to brush at night to see if any wisp of algae start to build up. That might be a better way of indicating if the FC's are falling behind a little.
Watching for cloudy water might not be too precise as with the pool light on brushing the floor of the pool for sediment buildup, agree?

A better way to check things is to do the OCLT. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/overnight_fc_test

 

[dolphin]

yeah thats right, borrowing a page from the slamming method, that is : less than 1 or 0 CL overnight loss. i should conduct that now and then or when things look suspicious.
I'm yearning for the day when testing goes digital... All one would have to do is look at a gauge and go uh oh, time to raise cl or slam

 

[jblizzle]

There are digital testers. They are not as good as the kits we recommend. They are expensive, require frequent calibration, and you still do not know if they are providing accurate numbers.

 

[dolphin]

yeah the TF-100 i bought works really well, in fact its testing the Slam process as we speak. its hard to get the kit to go thru customs tho. no one stocks a kit of this sort where we live. But i do swear by it