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Thread: Newbie with lots to learn

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    Newbie with lots to learn

    We had a new pool installed this year. I've had a pool company recommended by my installer taking care of my pool for the last couple of months but want to take this over myself. I bought a test kit (Taylor K-2006) and have taken two samples a couple of days apart with similar results.

    Sample #1:
    FC: 11.6
    CC: 0.2
    pH: 8.0
    TA: 100
    CH: 280
    CYA: 80

    Sample #2:
    FC: 12.2
    CC: 0
    pH: 8.0
    TA: 100
    CH: 260
    CYA: 80

    From what I have been reading the CYA is a bit high at 90 with a SWG, but I'm wondering if the very high FC could contribute to that reading ? My SWG has been running at 50% with the pump running about 8 hours a day (recommended by my pool installer). I thought my pool service would lower the pump run-time or SWG percentage if the FC is higher than needed, but I guess not After getting an obnoxiously high electric bill, I've just cut the run time in 1/2 and will re-test tomorrow after two days at the new settings.

    Looks like I should add some acid to get the pH down, but other that that and getting the FC down a bit, is there anything else I should do ?

    Also, my cleaner runs about 2 hours a day on the new schedule and keeps the the pool pretty clean. When the cleaner is running the pump is also running so both the drains and the skimmer are going. The SWG is connected to the drain return and when the cleaner is running the pump runs at 2400 RPM instead of 1800 when the pump only is running. Given the higher pump RPM should I lower the SWG even more or just shorten the run time of the pump some more.

    Lastly, is there a reason not to run the pump at a higher RPM for shorter time especially during the cleaning cycle ? This pump can run 3450 RPM at 92% efficiency so it seems to me it might be a better idea to run the pump at a higher rate during the cleaning cycle and have the cleaning cycle run a shorter time.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Mod Squad Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Welcome to the forum.
    First, you can use a 10 ml sample for FC and save on some reagent. It will be more than accurate enough.
    Perhaps the shorter run time will get you the FC you need, but I will let the more experienced folks with SWGs weigh in
    on that. Sorry not to give you more info, but I mostly wanted to say Welcome to the forum.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Welcome to the forum.

    I'll address your chemistry results.

    Lower your pH down to around 7.5 and keep it there all the time by testing and adding acid as needed......this is VERY important.

    Your CYA is fine....leave it at 80

    Your FC is too high....adjust your run time or percentage output to maintain around 5 ppm. Consult the FC/CYA chart to see your correct range.
    but I'm wondering if the very high FC could contribute to that reading ?
    They are not at all related
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    OK. Thanks. I'll get the pH down and work on getting the FC down. My plan is to test the FC today to see what my new run time has accomplished.

    Thanks !
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Welcome to tfp, spyder850

    Quote Originally Posted by spyder850
    Lastly, is there a reason not to run the pump at a higher RPM for shorter time especially during the cleaning cycle ? This pump can run 3450 RPM at 92% efficiency so it seems to me it might be a better idea to run the pump at a higher rate during the cleaning cycle and have the cleaning cycle run a shorter time.
    The intelliflo is most efficient around 1000 rpm. Ideally, you would want to run at 1000 rpms, just long enough to keep the water clear to your liking. Depending on you situation, that low speed may not do a good enough job of skimming for you and you would need to run a little higher for a short period once or twice a day to skim. Just to give you perspective, typical 2-speed pumps running at half speed use ~ 1/4 of the energy but move ~1/2 of the water compared to full speed...so in the end cost about 1/2 to run. You should be able to do even better with your vs pump.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Just to add to the above, you may find that you want to run a short period of time at a higher RPM to have better skimming action, but keep the RPM down around 1000 at all other times.

    OH ... this also assumes that the SWG can run at 1000 rpm. If it does not, just find a low speed that keeps the SWG generating ... if the water is warm enough that is.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Just to add to the above, you may find that you want to run a short period of time at a higher RPM to have better skimming action, but keep the RPM down around 1000 at all other times.

    OH ... this also assumes that the SWG can run at 1000 rpm. If it does not, just find a low speed that keeps the SWG generating ... if the water is warm enough that is.
    Pool temp is currently 60F so I think I'm OK there. The SWG says the minimum production rate is 25 gpm. What I don't understand if how I get gpm out of rpm for the pump. In the back of the pump manual there is a graph that shows gpm and rpm but it references something called "total head". WTH is total head ?

    Thanks !
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Welcome to tfp, spyder850

    Quote Originally Posted by spyder850
    Lastly, is there a reason not to run the pump at a higher RPM for shorter time especially during the cleaning cycle ? This pump can run 3450 RPM at 92% efficiency so it seems to me it might be a better idea to run the pump at a higher rate during the cleaning cycle and have the cleaning cycle run a shorter time.
    The intelliflo is most efficient around 1000 rpm. Ideally, you would want to run at 1000 rpms, just long enough to keep the water clear to your liking. Depending on you situation, that low speed may not do a good enough job of skimming for you and you would need to run a little higher for a short period once or twice a day to skim. Just to give you perspective, typical 2-speed pumps running at half speed use ~ 1/4 of the energy but move ~1/2 of the water compared to full speed...so in the end cost about 1/2 to run. You should be able to do even better with your vs pump.
    My skimmer is not connected to the pump, the pool drains are. The skimmer is the return when the cleaner is running, but not when the pump is running.

    BTW, where did you find the data 1/4 of the energy and 1/2 the water ? Be nice to find the details for my system to see if there's a different sweet spot.

    Thanks for the advice and the welcome !
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Determining the GPM for a given RPM is not easy. It is a function of all the head loss (total head) in your specific system like (pipe size and length, fittings, return jet sizes, filter, valves, and how dirty the filter is etc). The tables supplied in the literature ASSUME some nominal system which may not reflect reality.

    In general it is not worth the effort to figure out and there is no point in needing that info. Just adjust the RPM down toward 1000 rpm if the SWG gives a low flow error, increase the speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Determining the GPM for a given RPM is not easy. It is a function of all the head loss (total head) in your specific system like (pipe size and length, fittings, return jet sizes, filter, valves, and how dirty the filter is etc). The tables supplied in the literature ASSUME some nominal system which may not reflect reality.

    In general it is not worth the effort to figure out and there is no point in needing that info. Just adjust the RPM down toward 1000 rpm if the SWG gives a low flow error, increase the speed.
    Got it. Will try this out. Thanks !
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Welcome to TFP.

    Unless your local "pool store" has refills, it is best to get your chemical testing supplies at Amazon through I believe Amato. That way you will ensure fresh testing chemicals. Who knows how long the stuff has been on the shelf at the local pool store. I also have the 2006 and have used my kit for the past 3 years, each year getting needed and new chemicals from Amazon.

    Here is a new concept that most of us who have (or had in my case) SWG pools.....during most of the year, your "preset" time that you have the SWG on will be OK.....well, that seems obvious......mostly during the middle of the summer, you will either need to start screwing with run times OR simply make up the additional chlorine needed by adding bleach as much as necessary to make up the difference. Guess what I am really trying to warn you about (that you may not be aware of) is that the setting you have chosen after testing for the perfect level of chlorine now will not work all the time. Summer sun and alot of people in the pool will increase the need for chlorine......choice #1, start messing with SWG times or #2, add bleach (as in Clorox) to make up the difference.

    In my case, since I had a small pool, all I had to do was add one cup of Clorox to the pool after everyone got out at the end of the day. Keeping my AGP covered during non use times pretty much stabilized the amount of time the SWG needed to keep my "level" constant.

    Enjoy that new pool......you are doing a great thing by taking control of your pool and not depending on someone else to maintain your pool.

    Bob E.

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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    Interesting take on SWG. I had never really considered that I could just "goose" the FC by adding bleach in the summer time. Good idea and thanks for suggesting it !

    Right now, I'm just trying to get a good baseline for the SWG to get me through fall and winter. While I have a gas heater and could heat the pool, I'm not likely to. Just the spa when we want to use that. Since they are connected, I'd like to find that good setting that gets me through this time of low activity figuring I will need to adjust in Spring when the weather warms and the use increases.

    BTW, I LOVE Amazon. Got my testing kit that way and will definitely get fresh supplies that way too. Just too easy to order and have it show up a couple of days later

    Thanks again !
    Free Form IG Pool with overflow connected Spa. 28K gal. Finished Sept. 2013.
    Wet Edge Primera Stone (Tahoe Coast)
    Intelliflo VS Pump. Paramount Cleaning System. IntelliClor IC40 SWG. Sta-Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with lots to learn

    You may have found a better deal on the K-2006 at tftestkits.net (or actually the TF-100 is the best deal) ... they also sell refills.
    That site is owned by the forum owner ... so if you like the forum ....
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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