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Thread: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

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    Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Hola Amigos,
    I am in Mexico and opened my pool just about the time most up north are closing theirs. I converted last year to a Hayward EcoStar pump and so far it is doing a fabulous job of filtering. I run it for 14 hours a day at 1000 rpm and it uses about the same electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. My electric bill has gone down alot and the filtering has gone up alot.

    Every year when I exit Mexico I close and drain the pool for the next four months until my return. I have been leaving the sand filter full of water for that four months. This year when I filled and started the pool the pump seems to be driving sand through into the pool when it primes and when I back wash it is in the water that comes out. The pump always primes at the same speed, what seems to be 3450, and I can't seem to control that in the controller menu but I can control all other speeds. The sand doesn't seem to come through when I am filtering at 1000 rpm. I have yet to try putting a sock over a jet as I haven't found a sock. (don't wear sock and shoes here).

    Any suggestions as to what I might try to aleviate the problem or just what the problem might be would be much appreciated and a big Thank You in advance.

    My water is sparkling clear blue.
    FC 5
    CC 0
    TA 50
    CC 0 (working on that)
    CY 3 (working on that)
    TFT test kit
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Might be worth opening up the filter and inspecting the sand (which should be part of regular maintenance): my-sand-is-channeled-how-to-fix-it-t7626.html#p60821

    So you did not notice any sand last year when priming/backwashing?
    What size/model number is your filter?

    You should be able to set the maximum speed that is used for priming ... I am just not sure how that is done.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    couldn't it be a broken/cracked lateral?
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Might be worth opening up the filter and inspecting the sand (which should be part of regular maintenance): my-sand-is-channeled-how-to-fix-it-t7626.html#p60821

    So you did not notice any sand last year when priming/backwashing?
    What size/model number is your filter?

    You should be able to set the maximum speed that is used for priming ... I am just not sure how that is done.
    No sand last year when priming or backwashing. I will check the model number and size of the filter in the morning and get back to you. I may have to ask Hayward how to change the prime speed because I can't figure it out from the directions. thank you for your response.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by bobodaclown
    couldn't it be a broken/cracked lateral?

    Possibly. I was hoping not because I am not shure where to get another if it is.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    It could also be a bad spider gasket which is more likely than a lateral issue. It is also much, much easier to replace.

    Here is a good thread on spider gaskets: http://www.troublefreepool.com/chang...et-t43419.html
    Josh Ulfers - josh@saltpoolguys.com - 888-725-8766
    SaltPoolGuys.com - AutoPilot Pool Pilot Systems, Parts & Cells - AquaCal Heat Pumps

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    We see posts identical to this on the forum quite often. It seems like 50% of the time or more, it is not sand coming from the filter at all but rather fine debris (often dead algae) that settles to the pool floor. Your first step should be to scoop some up and confirm it is sand. gritty, drops straight to the bottom if you let go of it, etc. If it poofs up into the water and disperses, it is not sand.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by Patricio
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Might be worth opening up the filter and inspecting the sand (which should be part of regular maintenance): my-sand-is-channeled-how-to-fix-it-t7626.html#p60821

    So you did not notice any sand last year when priming/backwashing?
    What size/model number is your filter?

    You should be able to set the maximum speed that is used for priming ... I am just not sure how that is done.
    No sand last year when priming or backwashing. I will check the model number and size of the filter in the morning and get back to you. I may have to ask Hayward how to change the prime speed because I can't figure it out from the directions. thank you for your response.
    Good Morning. I checked for the model number on the filter and found a lablel with three model numbers and none of them were checked as the model of this particular filter. 160TS, 190TS, and 240TS. Photos below.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    We see posts identical to this on the forum quite often. It seems like 50% of the time or more, it is not sand coming from the filter at all but rather fine debris (often dead algae) that settles to the pool floor. Your first step should be to scoop some up and confirm it is sand. gritty, drops straight to the bottom if you let go of it, etc. If it poofs up into the water and disperses, it is not sand.

    What I believe to be sand in the pool collects in the grout lines between tiles and is the redish color of the sand in the filter and what is in the backwash. There is not enough in the pool to actually reach in and grab. When I hit it with the pool brush it does just poof up. There is a much larger volume in the backwash. Each time I backwash I get about a cup or more.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshU
    It could also be a bad spider gasket which is more likely than a lateral issue. It is also much, much easier to replace.

    Here is a good thread on spider gaskets: http://www.troublefreepool.com/chang...et-t43419.html

    Hi Josh, Thank you for your response. There is much more sand in the in the backwash than the pool. Could that still mean spider gasket? And I am not shure after reading the message from duraleigh that what is in the pool is actually sand. It is the color of sand and collects in the grout lines between tiles but there is not enough to reach in and grab some.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Annoying that the installers never mark the model number

    Even if yours is the largest (it does look closer to 24" diameter than 19" or 16"), it states the max flow rate is 50 GPM which the big EcoStar is likely going to far exceed when run at full speed.

    Sand should not poof up when you try to grab it out of the grout line Are you sure it is sand also in the backwash?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Annoying that the installers never mark the model number

    Even if yours is the largest (it does look closer to 24" diameter than 19" or 16"), it states the max flow rate is 50 GPM which the big EcoStar is likely going to far exceed when run at full speed.

    Sand should not poof up when you try to grab it out of the grout line Are you sure it is sand also in the backwash?

    Yes, I scooped up alot of it and compared it to sand that I had left over when I filled the filter.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by Patricio
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Annoying that the installers never mark the model number

    Even if yours is the largest (it does look closer to 24" diameter than 19" or 16"), it states the max flow rate is 50 GPM which the big EcoStar is likely going to far exceed when run at full speed.

    Sand should not poof up when you try to grab it out of the grout line Are you sure it is sand also in the backwash?

    Yes, I scooped up alot of it and compared it to sand that I had left over when I filled the filter.
    Is it possible that the pump is to powerful and can just drive the sand through the filter when i backwash? I have been backwashing at 2000 rpm
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    It is possible, although I was under the impression you were backwashing at full speed. At 2000 rpm, I would think that may not be too powerful.

    Have you checked the spider gasket yet?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    It is possible, although I was under the impression you were backwashing at full speed. At 2000 rpm, I would think that may not be too powerful.

    Have you checked the spider gasket yet?

    I have not checked the spider gasket. I received a tip from another contributor Josh about a thread that explained how to change that gasket. Not having a gasket to replace it with I have been hesitant to take apart the top of the filter thingy because if the gasket was bad I would have to put it back together with the bad gasket until I could find another. I guess thats the only way I will know if it is bad though. Would you reccommend checking it?
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Next time you backwash, catch some of that stuff and confirm that it really is sand.....I am not yet sure it is.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    If it is sand, and you recently changed sand, there is a good chance of having cracked a lateral when placing the new sand. Did you fill tank 1/2 way with water before pouring in sand? This allows sand to float to bottom and settle around laterals and support them as additional sand settles and covers them. If the sand is in the grout lines on the side walls, it is possible that it is not sand but small debris being forced through the sand by a higher than necessary rpm of the Ecostar.

    I have the same filter, but the 30" version. I use 150# of Zeobrite rather than #300 lb of sand. Gives me cleaning level of DE without adding DE.

    Re rpm and flowrates. Without a flowmeter you can't pinpoint the correct rpm for the Ecostar. However, using the psi gauge of the filter tank I believe I have come up with a workable solution to adjust rpm to a "within range" level. In my case, prior to the Ecostar, my clean PSI was 12 and my dirty was 22 (10psi over clean - per manufacturer specs). Using this as my starting point, I installed the Ecostar and used the manual buttons to adust rpm until I found the speed that would give me 12 psi and then 22 psi. I then went into the Configuration menu and set my maximum rpm slightly higher than the rpm that would raise my psi to the dirty level(22). I found that this enables me to provide enough pressure to run the filter for backwashing, and for priming.

    I then set my pump timer to run at the rpm that gives me the clean psi (12 in my case)for 5 hrs. for filtration, chlorination, and cleaning purposes (vac, pop-ups, return side cleaners).

    The 2nd timer is for the remainder of the 24 hr day at 1000 rpm. My pool stays sparkling with a very long filter run (6 weeks in the summer time) and $40-$50 less a month in electricity in the summer time. As I am in Florida, I will adjust accordingly for the winter months by shortening my "clean run time" and increasing my low speed run time. (not the rpm's, but the run time), thereby adjusting for cooler weather, reduced pool and chemical usage.

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by kkiesksr
    In my case, prior to the Ecostar, my clean PSI was 12 and my dirty was 22 (10psi over clean - per manufacturer specs).
    FYI, we do not recommend waiting that long to clean a filter. We recommend cleaning when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure. If you wait much beyond that, the flow rate is drastically reduced and thus so is your filtration capability.

    The old 10psi is just another relic of a recommendation in the pool industry that does not make sense. A 10psi increase over a starting pressure of 10psi is a lot different than over a starting pressure of 20psi ... 100% increase vs 50% increase ... both of which are WAY too much.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Next time you backwash, catch some of that stuff and confirm that it really is sand.....I am not yet sure it is.

    I caught about a cup and it is definitely sand. I compared it to the sand I had left over when I filled the filter and it is the same stuff.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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    Re: Sand coming out jets and out back wash

    Quote Originally Posted by kkiesksr
    If it is sand, and you recently changed sand, there is a good chance of having cracked a lateral when placing the new sand. Did you fill tank 1/2 way with water before pouring in sand? This allows sand to float to bottom and settle around laterals and support them as additional sand settles and covers them. If the sand is in the grout lines on the side walls, it is possible that it is not sand but small debris being forced through the sand by a higher than necessary rpm of the Ecostar.

    I have the same filter, but the 30" version. I use 150# of Zeobrite rather than #300 lb of sand. Gives me cleaning level of DE without adding DE.

    Re rpm and flowrates. Without a flowmeter you can't pinpoint the correct rpm for the Ecostar. However, using the psi gauge of the filter tank I believe I have come up with a workable solution to adjust rpm to a "within range" level. In my case, prior to the Ecostar, my clean PSI was 12 and my dirty was 22 (10psi over clean - per manufacturer specs). Using this as my starting point, I installed the Ecostar and used the manual buttons to adust rpm until I found the speed that would give me 12 psi and then 22 psi. I then went into the Configuration menu and set my maximum rpm slightly higher than the rpm that would raise my psi to the dirty level(22). I found that this enables me to provide enough pressure to run the filter for backwashing, and for priming.

    I then set my pump timer to run at the rpm that gives me the clean psi (12 in my case)for 5 hrs. for filtration, chlorination, and cleaning purposes (vac, pop-ups, return side cleaners).

    The 2nd timer is for the remainder of the 24 hr day at 1000 rpm. My pool stays sparkling with a very long filter run (6 weeks in the summer time) and $40-$50 less a month in electricity in the summer time. As I am in Florida, I will adjust accordingly for the winter months by shortening my "clean run time" and increasing my low speed run time. (not the rpm's, but the run time), thereby adjusting for cooler weather, reduced pool and chemical usage.

    Thank you for your reply. I am still trying to figure the best way to run this EcoStar after one year. It definitely has more power than the old 3/4 horse I took off. i don't have a clorinator or pop-ups or side cleaners, just the interwater. When I run the EcoStar at 1000 rpm it cleans the water way better than the old pump speed. The pressure on the filter only reads 1.5 lbs pressure and I thought that was ok because the water stays sparkling and the electric bill has gone way way down. The pump seems to always prime at 3450 no matter weather set on auto sense or the other way. Nothing in the prime speed menu seems to give you a choice of speed for priming, unless I am just reading it wrong.
    10,000 gal, IG, small tile on total pool, Interwater Sand, 2 hp hayward EcoStar variable sp

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