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Thread: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring advic

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    replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring advic

    The two manual timers, both intermatic t104pdc are tied together to run my filter and boost pumps. My new intermatic 1353me includes freeze protection. I want to make sure it turns on both pumps when necessary. It seems mode 3 will only turn on the filter pump. It's there a way to fully automate this process? Appreciate any help y'all can give me!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    I believe that mode 3 will run both circuit 1 and circuit 3 when freeze protection runs. You can test it by cooling the sensor.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Here's the manual: http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Inter ... 353ME.ashx

    On page 31: Mode 3: Aux #1 & #3 will blink indicating the control has activated these two circuits due to a freeze condition. To override the circuits during a freeze condition, simply press and release each of the corresponding ON/OFF keys. This will override the freeze control and turn the devices OFF. The override will only last for one hour, so if the freeze condition still exists after one hour, circuits #1 & #3 will come back on.
    The freeze protection stays enabled until the outside air temperature exceeds the programmed freeze temperature for more than one minute.
    IMPORTANT NOTE
    The freeze protection feature will not work unless you have installed the freeze sensor probe. Refer to page six of this manual for ordering and installation instructions, and step #10 for freeze programming instructions.


    So as long as you've installed the freeze sensor probe both 1 and 3 will come on and do what you've requested.
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by bobodaclown
    Here's the manual: http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Inter ... 1000Thanks ME%20Series/P1353ME.ashx

    On page 31: Mode 3: Aux #1 & #3 will blink indicating the control has activated these two circuits due to a freeze condition. To override the circuits during a freeze condition, simply press and release each of the corresponding ON/OFF keys. This will override the freeze control and turn the devices OFF. The override will only last for one hour, so if the freeze condition still exists after one hour, circuits #1 & #3 will come back on.
    The freeze protection stays enabled until the outside air temperature exceeds the programmed freeze temperature for more than one minute.
    IMPORTANT NOTE
    The freeze protection feature will not work unless you have installed the freeze sensor probe. Refer to page six of this manual for ordering and installation instructions, and step #10 for freeze programming instructions.


    So as long as you've installed the freeze sensor probe both 1 and 3 will come on and do what you've requested.
    Yes, but it says Mode 1 in the pic, so I would think I'd have to use mode 1 and program the on/ off times for circuits 1 and 3 individually. That sorta confirms what I was told by intermatic tech support. On Monday, I'll call them again and have them help me with the wiring. Thanks for your reply.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    I believe that mode 3 will run both circuit 1 and circuit 3 when freeze protection runs. You can test it by cooling the sensor.
    Bama, attached are pics of my current timer setup. I saw a wiring diagram you made for someone elses application. Could you maybe produce one for mine--please? Single speed pump, but I'm wondering about the 2 blue leads going to the filter pump. Just noticed there are 2 blue leads going to the boost pump too. With boost pump and freeze protection. The current setup has a connection to ensure the filter pump is running to supply power to allow the boost pump to run. I had a pool guy wire in a new boost pump early this summer, and everything is working as needed. I just wanted a digital timer and especially freeze protection that I will now have with the new installation. It doesn't get below freezing too often or for too long, but I know how expensive multiport valves and pumps cost? Also, I have no idea why there is an underround conduit /wiring going to the boost pump control (must be the power to the pool light, which is not controlled by the timer). I plan on using the filter control enclosure since it already has the wiring from the circuit breaker panel. Thanks for any help you can give me. BTW, I asked the question about the freeze protection running both pumps to their tech support prior to having the timer or freeze kit on hand. They said that mode 3 would not work but on the filter pump. And for it to work on both it would need to be mode 1.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Update: attached is another pic showing both control timers the way they used to look with some additional notes. IE the underground conduit IS for the pool light, I shockingly discovered it was in fact a still energized 120v circuit and was connected from the house wiring directly to the conduit using the yellow wire nuts. Now for the real questions, where do I connect the 2 blue wires for each circuit (filter pump and boost pump) and where do the 240 black and white wires get connected? I'm assuming the black are the hot connections from the circuit breaker and would get connected to terminal 2 and jumped to 4 and 8??? Where do the pairs of blue wires to the pumps get connected. In the mechanical timers they were on terminals 2 and 4 on each timer. I've also moved the filter pump conduit to the empty hole and the boost pump to the right most hole. The pool light conduit is now in the left side hole of the enclosure. I'll be cutting another hole to put the bushing for the freeze sensor connection.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    So you need a diagram for the electronic timer, right?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    So you need a diagram for the electronic timer, right?
    Yes! Please!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    I have some wiring diagrams I can get to tomorrow. Bump this if I haven't posted it by Wednesday.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    I have some wiring diagrams I can get to tomorrow. Bump this if I haven't posted it by Wednesday.
    No need anymore, I got it wired up and working great pump wise. One of the wires disconnected from the freeze sensor, so I couldn't get that programmed. Have a replacement on the way. Thanks for your help.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Glad you got it wired and working.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Glad you got it wired and working.
    Thank you! Now to get the freeze sensor working. I called tech support again this morning. The tech I talked to has a test bed, and he confirmed the mode3 doesn't show the 3rd circuit with freeze protection, but mode 1 does. I guess it has something to do with the 30 sec delay to ensure the filter pump is running. He is going to have a senior tech give me a call to explain why not, though he agreed it shouldn't make any difference. I also learned a little about 240v wiring (both the black and white wires coming out of the wall are hot 120v wires that are connected to terminals 1&2 then jumped from 2 to 3&7) one blue wire to each pump is wired to 4 and 8 and the other blue wires are pigtailed to 1. Works great!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Actually if the booster pump is plumbed into the discharge of the main pump without a valve, there will be some water flowing through it whenever the main pump is running. While it would be nice to have the option of running the booster whit the freeze protection, it's not completely necessary.

    That's exactly how I had it figured out and drawn. Where the old timers were switching both legs of the power, the new electronic timer only switches one, so you have to wire the other leg directly to L2 (2nd hot).
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Actually if the booster pump is plumbed into the discharge of the main pump without a valve, there will be some water flowing through it whenever the main pump is running. While it would be nice to have the option of running the booster whit the freeze protection, it's not completely necessary.

    That's exactly how I had it figured out and drawn. Where the old timers were switching both legs of the power, the new electronic timer only switches one, so you have to wire the other leg directly to L2 (2nd hot).
    So, if the vacuum moves with only the filter pump running, that should mean there's water flowing through the boost pump too? So, I should just keep it set up on mode 3? Actually, that's better cuz it will save electricity.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Definitely if the vacuum is moving, there's enough water moving through it without the booster running to prevent freezing.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Definitely if the vacuum is moving, there's enough water moving through it without the booster running to prevent freezing.
    Perfect!!! Thanks again!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Definitely if the vacuum is moving, there's enough water moving through it without the booster running to prevent freezing.
    As a followup, after experiencing numerous nights with subfreezing temperatures, my timer is working perfectly. I'm so happy I bought it, and recommend it for the peace of mind it gives you knowing your pumps and piping is safe from freezing.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by timerguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Definitely if the vacuum is moving, there's enough water moving through it without the booster running to prevent freezing.
    As a followup, after experiencing numerous nights with subfreezing temperatures, my timer is working perfectly. I'm so happy I bought it, and recommend it for the peace of mind it gives you knowing your pumps and piping is safe from freezing.
    .... assuming you do not lose power overnight {Not to open a can of worms }
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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Quote Originally Posted by timerguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Definitely if the vacuum is moving, there's enough water moving through it without the booster running to prevent freezing.
    As a followup, after experiencing numerous nights with subfreezing temperatures, my timer is working perfectly. I'm so happy I bought it, and recommend it for the peace of mind it gives you knowing your pumps and piping is safe from freezing.
    .... assuming you do not lose power overnight {Not to open a can of worms }
    nice thing about the timer is that it will hold the settings in its memory for days and will reset itself if inside 8 hrs. I've never had a power outage that lasted more than an hour or two.

    UPDATE: We had an ice storm back in early Feb that knocked trees down all over the place. Resulting in lost power for days in some areas of SC. Fortunately our power loss here was for only a few hours--4 I believe. My timer ran just fine. Only thing I had to do was change the current time setting? it would be nice if it had a battery backup to to keep the time running-- overall not a big problem
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: replacing two mech timers with a digital-- need wiring a

    I have the identical situation as you started with when you replaced the dual Intermatic T104 mechanical timers with the Intermatic P1353ME timer. Only difference in my situation is that I am using two P1353ME timers - one timer to control each single-speed 240V pump (filter, cleaner & water feature booster) and the second timer to control the 120V pool lights, 24V landscape lights (via a switched transformer) and a 240V heater while allowing for additional switched AUX circuits. I will install freeze protector sensors to each timer and an H2O temp sensor and then add the Intermatic PE650/PE950 wireless remote control system. I am puzzled/confused by the wiring need for this arrangement. My T104 timers are wired with dedicated Line/Load conductors (2 each) and the only way I see to wire one P1353ME to the three pumps is to jumper the 240V Line from #1 to #3,5,7 and run the Load from #4,6,8 to each pump - which will switch just one leg of the 240V circuit running to the pumps. The pump circuits are all protected by double-pole circuit breakers and the pump wiring runs from the control center to the pumps in flexible conduit. Did you switch just one leg of the 240V pump circuits in your installation? Is switching just one leg of the 240V pump circuit a safety concern in the wet environment of the equipment corral? Can you send or post pics of your wiring arrangement for the Intermatic P1353ME timer that you installed? Thanks!

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