Design Advice - Eastern Shore of Maryland

[reaganmarine]

(Drawing added below)

My wife and I are very close to making a decision on our new pool build. We’ve been considering this project since the spring. It will be for my wife and I and our two elementary school aged children.

This site has been very helpful in preparing for this process and I am hoping to receive some feedback on a recent quote from a local pool company that we most likely will be hiring.

I am especially interested in feedback concerning the:
- size of the pump
- what size chlorine generator is recommended
- recommended filter (DE or Cartridge)
- do I need an Automated Pool Control System (this is one of the “extras” included)
- is it a good idea to fill the pool from our hose (city water) as a cost saving measure?

We would prefer to start the build in the first or second week of November (next month) and have the shell completed shortly after that. We would prefer to hold off on the decking and the fence until early spring and complete the plaster and the filling of the pool after that.


Here are the specs as outline in the pool company’s quote:

- 18’ X 38’ Rectangle (Gunite Pool) 3 ½ ‘ – 8 ½ ’ deep, with diving board
- 684 Sf of Pool Area
- One Set of Deluxe Steps (Shallow End), One Love Seat & Once Extended Bench
- Hydrostatic relief in floor, 2 Main drains, 2” pipe for suction lines, 1 ½ “ for returns
- 1 HP, single speed, Pentair Whisperflo Pump
- Pentair DE Filter
- Chlorine Generator & Automated Pool Control System with the Salt Option (Pentair Easytouch Combo System)
- One Self-Adjusting Skimmer
- Tumbled Blue Stone Coping
- Tile, tbd
- White Marblite Finish Plaster
- Deluxe Underwater Light
- Dive Board, White, 6’

Price $34,200

Winter Cover is extra
Automatic Cleaner is extra
Cost to truck in water to fill the pool is extra

We will be hiring another company to build the decking around the pool (about 1,100 sf).
We live on Maryland’s Eastern Shore

 

[SKC]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

Any reason you're starting part now and waiting for the rest?

 

[linen]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

Welcome to tfp, reaganmarine

I will try and help answer some of your questions:

- size of the pump

- 1 HP, single speed, Pentair Whisperflo Pump

We would highly recommend a 2-speed, since most of the time you will run on low. In the end this saves money and is quieter. A 1 hp 2-speed would be a good choice. A whisperflo will move more water than the superflo line, but will take more energy as well and you don't appear to have any water features that require it.

- what size chlorine generator is recommended

You have a big pool spec'ed...I estimate somewhere around 28000 gallons from the details you gave. We recommend sizing the swg 1.5-3 times the size of the pool...I would get an swg rated for 60K gallons.

- recommended filter (DE or Cartridge)

Any will work, i prefer sand, but all will work fine. We would recommend as minimums:

• Cart: 416 sq. ft.
  Sand: 5.2 sq. ft.
  DE: 78 sq. ft.

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

Any reason you're starting part now and waiting for the rest?

Since it's so late in the season I'm trying to save the time and cost of opening / closing the pool. Also, trying to let the soil settle for a few months before the decking is poured.

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

linen - Thank you for the feedback. We definitely will keep your recommendations in mind.
This project has been somewhat overwhelming but thanks to this site, the process has been much more manageable.

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

I thought I was reading the specs of our pool when I read yours. Don't read anything into our pump size of 2HP, it should be a 1 1/2 or 1HP 2-speed, but the PB up sized it on me. Nothing wrong with doing the shell now, in fact it gets the source of many delays out of the way now. But I wouldn't count on the soil settling alone to properly prepare for concrete. Only proper compaction in lifts would be appropriate. But compaction and then letting it settle wouldn't hurt.

We love our bench work. It sounds like you are planning well on that front. If you want to take a look at ours, my signature has the thread.

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

Hello bmoreswim! I’m very familiar with your build; beautiful pool and the detailed thread has been very helpful.

We ended up with the 18’ X 38’ design because we had to reduce the size in order to work with our oddly shaped lot and the slope in our yard (had to reduce costs associated with the needed retaining wall to stay within budget). We're trying to keep it as long as possible to increase the size of our shallow end. Our original plan was for a 20’ X 40’.

Thanks for the reassurance on doing the shell and the advice on the pump and the soil. It’s always good to hear other people’s experiences.

I’m hoping someone can offer some advice on the Automated Pool Control System (whether or not it is needed with our simple features). I'm not familiar with it at all. This is one of the complimentary “extras” thrown into the deal by the builder. If it’s not necessary, perhaps I can opt for something else.

 

[gwegan]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

A couple of thoughts:

You need a two speed pump. The cost difference is minimal in comparison to the long term savings.

You have no heater? Make sure when they build out your equipment pad some heater options are included. Solar, gas, heat pump, leave space to add one.

Yes you want automation. Even the most basic are worth the money. It's simpler, faster and just plain more efficient.

You should consider an led light and you should consider 2 lights rather than one.

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

You had to go and use the "B" word regarding your project didn't you. That word ended up being quite disrespected during our process.

Some other thoughts...

Agreed w/ gwegan that two LED's are a nice upgrade from one standard pool light. Not a must but surprisingly cool and impressive.

On your slope, landscaping can be used quite effectively in certain instances to keep a slope in place to assist with reducing size/scope of retaining walls. Better done though on the lower side though, in case there are washout/drainage issues. The lower side of our does have a major dropoff on the rounded mound as is slopes down. There will eventually be much landscaping on it - a bit of which is in now.

Our water was $250/6,000 gallon truck. The water they bring you may well be your city (or nearby city's) water anyway. If it's cheaper for you to put it in via hose, then do it. But I would test your water with your TF-100 or equivalent testing kit to get a feel for its makeup. Though if they are the same source it really doesn't matter - just gets your head in the water chemistry game earlier. We used the trucks for the most part only because we have a well and had concerns with it running dry, etc.

Again agree with gwegan to go with automation. Probably whatever they are giving you will be fine with your fairly straightforward setup. Our setup is simple too but it's quite nice to have and I would get it again in a heartbeat. We have 2-speed pump, vacuum booster pump, SWCG, pool lights and two circuits of decking lights automated now. Ours is the upsized Hayward one so there are lots of relays available. But usually the most basic ones have like four not counting the filter & heater. Also, we did get a remote which almost never gets out to the pool in our case but sits on a counter in the kitchen so I can monitor what's going on out there (which I love). Then I can change pump run times, SWCG %, pool lights on/off or anything else from inside. It also shows salt content and water/air temps in it's display.

On the vacuum, in retrospect I'd get a robot and forego the pressure side vac with booster pump. Mine just adds unnecessary electrical use/complexity to the setup. With the robot, its plug and toss. That and I'm not thrilled with how my Kreepy Krauly climbs the hill from deep to shallow in my pool. The cleaning is fine, though my pool is in a clean environment, it's just it doesn't get up to shallow end very much without assistance.

If you don't want a white diving board, don't get white. You can specify many different colors. It's probably SR Smith or the other big one and they offer many options. We went for a look with no white around the pool. Only the in-pool lights have white frame on them and the returns. The other choice on the lights was stainless which I didn't choose. Our main drain and hydrostatic valves are black (though our plaster is gray not white).

I really like our skimmer covers. I ordered them myself and had the concrete guys fill them when they did the decking. They fit in the standard skimmer opening. They are called Pour-a-Lid and I first saw them from a post on here. They completely blend in and come in several different colors (thought you only see a little edge of the color around the circle).

I'd recommend two skimmers, one seems a little light for that size pool. One will likely get clogged/filled faster than the other and it means you still have plenty of water getting skimmed/sent to the pump in the meantime.

Food for thought and good luck!

* Edited to correct cost per water truck from $600 to the correct number of $250/truck.

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

Gwegan - Thank you for the feedback. I never thought about making the pad larger to allow for additional equipment later. We actually were considering and priced out a solar heater for the pool. Though it won’t make the budget now, it’s definitely a possibility in a few years. When it comes to cold pool water, I'm a baby : )

Bmoreswim - Thank you for the feedback as well. I haven’t given the color of the board of the other equipment much thought either. I can see where I might regret getting those things in white because it has a tendency to fade. I hope I can find some pictures of some color options soon so I can share them with my wife (she’ll be the one choosing the color of the tile, etc.).

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Need Advice on Pool Quote – Eastern Shore of Maryland

We just got another quote from a SECOND pool company.
We hadn’t heard from this second company in several weeks until they reached out to US for a follow-up. While on the phone with them I was surprised that they were willing to greatly reduce the price after I mentioned what the first pool builder was charging. Even more exciting is that this company strictly uses SHOTCRETE for their shells, which I prefer.
( I’ve read some posting on this site, how most say that Shotcrete and Gunite are equally good so long as properly applied; however, some weeks ago I spoke with several contractors about this build and was left with the impression that Shotcrete was the best approach. This point was mainly driven home by contractors who worked in new construction AND pool repairs. I also like that shotcrete is mixed at the plant and its delivery on site is more precisely measured / charged.)

I am especially interested in feedback (for this second company) concerning the :

- use of 1” pipe for returns
- Zodiac / Jandy equipment as compared to Pentair equipment (first company)

When I speak to this company again I will be asking that they specify the size of the salt system and request a 60K unit. I will also request a 1 HP, 2 speed pump.

Here are the specs as outlined in the SECOND pool company’s quote (*note – this is a 18’ X 36’ build / reduced for budgeting):

- 18’ X 36’ Rectangle (SHOTCRETE Pool) 3 ½ ‘ – 8 ½’ deep, with diving board
- 648 Sf of Pool Area
- (4) Deluxe Steps in Shallow End with 8’ Bench coming off of 2nd step, 6’ Outside Loveseat
- Hydrostatic relief in floor, 2 Main drains, 2” pipe for suction lines, 1” pipe for returns
- 1.5 HP, single speed, Zodiac / Jandy Pump
- Zodiac / Jandy 460 Cart filter
- Zodiac / Jandy Salt System
- (2) Wide Mouth Skimmers
- Tumbled Blue Stone Coping
- Tile, standard
- “Tile Trim, 46’ (included)
- White Marblite Finish Plaster
- (1) 500 watt light
- 6’ Flight Deck
- "Removal of dirt on day of excavation only", INCLUDED (was not w/ first company)

Price $32,864

- Winter Cover is extra
- Automatic Cleaner is extra
- Cost to fill the pool is extra

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: Update 2nd Company Vying for Build-Eastern Shore of Mary

No comments on your requested items, but we did use tumbled bluestone (12"x18") as 25 stepping stones leading down to our pool from the driveway. I think they look great. You may want to clarify the thickness of the coping. Our coping is a natural cleft surface bluestone with square face but is only about 1 1/4" thick on average, not the full 2" that the tumbled stepping stones are. The coping thickness (or thinness) was a surprise to us...my fault for not clarifying it. But we are used to it and happy with it.

Be careful on the design that the 6' outside loveseat isn't in an area (such as a main walkway or tighter decking area) that might lead to a tripping/falling in the pool hazard. Your pool is plenty big to have internal benches, but the external ones do provide for more cozy settings (good for you, maybe not so much for your kids and future girl/boyfriends).

Another recommendation is to having them specify model numbers on EVERYTHING possible in the contract. Sometimes general word descriptions can lead to misunderstandings. I often looked up the model numbers myself and specified them, once I already knew what we were basically looking at. This specificity drove them a little crazy during the contract review phase but, oh well. It came in very handy once or twice during construction.

Do you have any additional quotes coming in?

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Pool Drawing Added - Eastern Shore of Maryland

After several attempts, I was finally able to add my pool drawing in a usable size. See above.

I reluctantly agreed to meet with Pool Company 2, tomorrow morning, to try to work out pool spec issues. I was hesitant to agree to meet with him because when I wrote him two days ago and told him of my interest in using all 2” pipe and using a 2 speed pump this was his reply:

“2 Speeds only push half the water so they need to run twice as long.”

He went on to insist on using 1” pipe for the returns.

Nevertheless I am meeting with him in the morning to see if he’ll agree to my changes. I think this will be a waste of our time.

 

[reaganmarine]

Re: Pool Drawing Added - Eastern Shore of Maryland

I’m not sure if I should post this question here or on the “Everything Else” forum but here it is anyway.

I would really appreciate some advice regarding pool lights. For our pool project I believe we should have two 500 watt pool lights. I believe both lights should be installed on the house side of the pool, to reduce glare, with one near the shallow end the other near the deep end. Two 500 watt lights seem much too bright on a 18’ X 36’ pool so I was wondering if the lights are sold in lower wattages or if can connect the lights to a dimmer switch. LED’s aren’t in the budget so I need to know what my options are for standard lights.