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Thread: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick Tock

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    Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick Tock

    I have about 30 days to take advantage of the Long Island Power Authority's (East End of New York) $400 rebate for a new VS pool pump. While I'm at it, I'm going to replace the filter. I currently have a Pentair Tagelus sand filter and a Hayward pump. The filter has a bad leak that was discovered at the end of this summer. Water was pouring out of the waste line.

    As embarrassing as it is, I don't know much about my pool or its equipment other than it's old, noisy and leaking. My pool is gunite (well, actually concrete as there isn't much gunite left). It's probably about 35,000 gallons (guessing). We only use it during the summer, mostly weekends and I paid $600 for electricity in July this year.

    My pool guy (who doesn't stand to make any money because he's not an approved LIPA VS pool pump installer) recommended I buy a Pentair 4 speed pool pump (anti entrapment - whatever that means) and a Hayward pro grid de filter 48 sq feet with side mount multi-port (again, not idea what that means) wth 1.5" plumbing. I spoke to another guy who also recommended a Pentair VS pump - Intelliflo - but said there's no need for a DE filter and I should just buy a new sand filter.

    I'm totally lost and could use some guidance.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Water leaking out of the waste line is likely just a bad spider gasket in the multi-valve. Seems silly to buy a new filter instead of a cheap gasket.

    If you really want a new filter, tell us the pool dimensions and we can verify the volume. The filter type is really just a personal preference thing. If 35k is right (that is a pretty big pool) these are the size recommendations:
    518 sqft cartridge
    6.5 sqft (35" diameter) sand
    98 sqft DE .... 72 sqft is about the biggest from Hayward.

    If that is right, a 48 sqft DE is way on the small size.

    I would recommend not getting the SVRS version of the Intelliflo. If you have no high flow water needs, one of the smaller Hayward VS pumps would be cheaper (assuming you get the same rebate) ... Max-flo VS or SuperPump VS.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    I wish I knew the size. The best I can do is show you these measurements. It's about 8 feet deep at the deep end. Can you tell me the size from this? It is a pretty big pool.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Verify these are the numbers (pic is small)
    Staring at the left and going around: 18 33 15 24 10 14
    And through the middle: 22 18 27 29

    If so, the surface area is about 735 sqft ... so in PoolMath you can enter a length of 35' and width of 21' and pick rectangular and then you just have to estimate the depth

    Ave of 5' is probably reasonable would be 27.5k gallons
    Ave of 6' which I find hard to believe would be 33k gallons

    I bet you are in the 27k-30k gallons range.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    OK, let's say 30K gallons. What size filters and VS pump do you recommend?

    Why wouldn't you recommend the Intelliflo?

    What the heck is a a multiport? And why side-mount? If I get a new filter and pump, do I need. To buy anything else?Valves, timers?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    For a 30k, suggested minimums are:
    440 sqft cartridge
    5.6 sqft (32") sand
    84 sqft DE
    But, given you are in the NE with a shorter swim season, you could get by with something a little smaller.

    What size is your sand filter? Are you sure it does not just need a $20 gasket?

    For pumps:
    There is nothing wrong with the Intelliflo, it is just a big expensive VS pump. You will likely never want to be running near the top speed, so it is just capability you have bought that you will never use. You have not mentioned any high water flow needs (spa, big waterfall, etc), so you really do not need a big pump. If you get the same rebate on the smaller VS pumps, then it would likely save you a few hundred bucks.

    Multiport is a valve on the filter that allow you to select various water routes, like filter, backwash, recirculate, waste, etc. They are very common with sand and DE filters. Side-mount vs. top-mount is kind of personal preference. DE is always side-mount (I think).

    No idea what else you might need as I do not know what your equipment pad looks like ... add some pictures. All the VS pumps have timers built-in.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    I am going to take some pictures this weekend. Based on the size of the pool, any idea what Horsepower I need? Also, how do I check the voltage? Sorry such a dope on this.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    It depends a little on what filter you get since a large sand filter will have higher flow requirements needed (but just for backwashing). Backwashable DE filters too, though you can usually open those up and manual clean fairly easily if needed.

    Which filter type are you thinking?

    Just to reiterate jbliz's question, do you have any high volume water features such as fountains, waterfalls, etc.?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    No high volume water features.

    I am going back and forth between DE and cartridge. Everyone I ask has a different opinion on which filters are best.

    I was looking on the web for pump calculations, but they all talk about turning over your water in 8 - 10 hours, isn't the point of the variable speed to run your filter for 24 hours at a much slower pace (apart from the times you have high traffic - e.g weekends/holidays). They also want to know the size of my piping. I think it's 1.5". And how far away my skimmers and main drain are away from the equipment (my main drain was plugged long before I ever came into the picture).

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwiener
    Everyone I ask has a different opinion on which filters are best.
    Very true. In the end, if properly sized, all three types will work fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwiener
    I was looking on the web for pump calculations, but they all talk about turning over your water in 8 - 10 hours, isn't the point of the variable speed to run your filter for 24 hours at a much slower pace (apart from the times you have high traffic - e.g weekends/holidays). They also want to know the size of my piping. I think it's 1.5". And how far away my skimmers and main drain are away from the equipment (my main drain was plugged long before I ever came into the picture).
    Take a look at this pool school article: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-.../pump_run_time. In practice, most people can get with a lot shorter pump time then turning the whole pool over. 1.5" piping will work with a vs pump, but it will limit how fast you want to run it.

    From what you shared, you will benefit from a 2-speed. However, I would guess you will not recoup the costs of a vs (especially the intelliflo) over the 2-speed. What are you electrical rates?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Service Charge: Standard Rate $0.3600
    Energy Charge: (per kWh) First 250 kWh $0.0857
    Excess 250 kWh $0.0975 (June 1 - Sept 30)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    So assuming the service charge is a daily flat rate regardless of how much energy you use, then you electric rates alone do not justify a vs pump since your rates are low. However with the rebate that likely changes things since the rebate is $400 for a vs and only $150 for a 2-speed. I would look at the Hayward Maxflo vs or the Superpump vs. Both of these will be cheaper than the intelleflo and fit your pools flow needs better.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Does the monthly "Power Supply Charge" - which recovers the cost of the electricity LIPA buys from various electric power providers on behalf of its customers - based on KWH used in a month, change your assesment. Here are recent rates:
    Nov 1, 2013 7.7808
    Oct 1, 2013 7.0180
    Sept 1, 2013 10.0645
    Aug 1, 2013 9.2574
    Jul 1, 2013 8.5200
    Jun 1, 2013 8.6075
    May 1, 2013 8.8203
    Apr 1, 2013 9.0335
    Mar 1, 2013 10.7842
    Feb 1, 2013 9.0866
    Jan 1, 2013 10.6369

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    So that charge is above and beyond the per kwh you mentioned above? If it is, then it helps push you towards a vs...though the bigger rebate for vs pumps really seems to justify it by itself. For example: you can get a superflo 1 hp 2speed for ~ 425 online -150 rebate = $275 and a maxflo vs for about 635 -400 rebate = $235...so I would go with the MaxFlo vs

    However, if the "approved installer" requires you to buy the pump from them (at their prices), that could change this equation.

    By the way, what pump do you have now?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Yes, that charge is about and beyond the KWH charge. I am going to buy it online myself. I am only talking to installers that don't sell equipment.

    I have a 1 HP Hayward, but I'm not there and I don't know what model. Sorry. I will check.

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    I have a Hayward Super Pump - Self Priming
    Model C48L2N124B1
    Serial 31307FM
    HP 1 1/2
    Volts 115/230
    RPM 3450

    Mean anything?

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Is there a list of approved VS pumps that qualify for the $400 rebate??

    Are you OK with doing some minor plumbing work??

    Do you know if your current pump is 110v or 230v

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    Yes, there is a pretty extensive list of approved VS pool pumps. I don't plumb, but expect the installer will have to. The pump says 115/230 volts. What are you thinking?

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    All VS pumps are 230volts that I'm aware of. If your current pump is wired for 115v then a VS pump would require re-wiring for a new pump. I ran into this when we installed our new SuperPump VS, and added about an extra $100 to the total (doing work ourselves). The SuperPump VS is a good "low end" VS pump and would work well for you. It acts almost like a 2speed pump in that it runs at speed "A" for a set amount of time....then switches to speed "B". For about $700 (before rebates) one can be bought and installed rather quickly. It was made as a direct replacement for your current SuperPump. Very little plumbing would be required, depending on the current setup.

    The main catch is do you currently have 115v or 220v. Is your pump just plugged into an outlet as you would a TV set???

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    Re: Variable Speed Pool Pump and New Filter Advice - Tick To

    There is a dedicated plug and it seems to be a 230 V outlet.

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