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Thread: Pool Heater - major problems

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Pool Heater - major problems

    My setup currently
    Hayward sand filter, 1.5hp pump, analog timer, Teledyne Laars Heater.

    The heater has no electronics, it operates based on pressure. When the pressure increases the heater functions, when the pressure drops the heater turns off. Thus (I assumed) the timer for the filter controls the filtering times, and when the filter shuts off automatically so does the heater.

    The heater has a Warning label which tells me the heater must be shutoff 20 minutes before the pump is shut off. - THEY MEAN IT!. I accidentally went to breakfast with the system on, and didn't realize the timer was about to turn off. I returned home to find the CPVC Plumbing (on the input side) has begun to melt and was spraying water.

    SO now I know there is no latitude here, the heater MUST be off long before the pump stops circulating the water. But how can this be accomplished when I am not home and the system is run automatically?

    I know that there is newer equipment with digital control of everything, but I have to believe that even though my system is older, it had to have worked at one time using the system the way it was originally designed. There is no conection for an auxiliary timer for the heater, there is no power to the heater to control. The heater has an on off switch, and a min/max dial for temp.

    I guess this boils "pun" down to - How were these heaters originally intended to be setup and run, Mine did not come with instructions of any type.

    - Thanks

    I'll be out in the yard repairing my plumbing while I await your suggestions
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 20,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.0Hp Maxiglass/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    I have the same heater, and thus our decision to run our filter/pump 24/7. But we have a 2 speed pump, which makes it less expensive, since we run it on low. I have a friend check on the pool when we go on vacation, but the rest of the season it just runs....I turn down/off the heater when we go away.

    My SIL had the same heater for years, till it finally gave out. She was more diligent about shutting it off and only turning it on when needed. But I don't like having to wait for the water to get to temp, I want it warm when I want it!

    Other than more automated control timers which I don't know if it's possible with that heater, I think the only option is a 2 speed pump, or turning it on and off manually. Like maybe run it at night, and be sure to have the timer set so you can turn it off before you go to work and then the timer on the pump shuts of an hour later or something...IDK - sorry!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    The function that stops the heater 15-20 minutes before turning off the filter pump is known as a "fireman's switch". Many of the Intermatic mechanical timers, as well as their digital timers, have this function.

    The first two Intermatic timers shown in this link have the "fireman's switch" feature. http://www.poolcenter.com/timers_automation.htm

    The timer also comes in handy for running your filter pump for less than 24 hours per day.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    Titanium has it right. The fireman's switch can be added to your existing time clock. Sounds like you have a millivolt heater. That means there is power that can be controlled by the time clock. It is easy to install and does the job.

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    Denali,

    Thanks for the info. I learn something new every time I visit the forum. I didn't realize that a fireman's switch could be added to these Intermatic timers.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    I think you guys are on the right track, but this heater does not have power, so its a little more complicated.

    I think you can still use a fireman's switch, but you must wire it into your heater. If you wire the firemans switch in series with the on/off switch for the heater, then the fireman's switch will turn off the heater 20 minutes before the pump turns off.

    To do this, you will need to cut the wire on one side of the on/off switch (does not matter which), and wire the fireman's switch into both ends of the cut wire.

    Randy
    25,000 gal fiberglass pool, Raypak 200k BTU H200FDN gas heater, Pentair CCP520 520 sq ft Cart filter, Max-Flo VS2303VSP pump. iWave wireless remote,

    seperate spa, with own pump, cartridge filter, Hayward H200FDN heater

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    What is the model number of your heater? If it's a millivolt heater it has power but it's measured in millivolts. The power comes from the pilot generator which the pilot light keeps hot.

    Yes, you cut into the wire in the heater and connect the wires from the fireman's switch. If you have the type of heater I suspect you have, you can tap in anywhere in the circuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by randytsuch
    I think you guys are on the right track, but this heater does not have power, so its a little more complicated.

    I think you can still use a fireman's switch, but you must wire it into your heater. If you wire the firemans switch in series with the on/off switch for the heater, then the fireman's switch will turn off the heater 20 minutes before the pump turns off.

    To do this, you will need to cut the wire on one side of the on/off switch (does not matter which), and wire the fireman's switch into both ends of the cut wire.

    Randy

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    thanks for all the information, an update and one more question.

    The heater IS a millivolt system, I got the manual online and there are two terminals that can have a "firemans switch" added in.

    I have an Intermatic timer without the firemans switch.

    the earlier links to PoolCenter.com are very helpfull. I notice they sell a separate "firemans switch" for $26. But even the intermatic site has no information on the switch itself.

    Does anyone know it this switch is compatible with the 104 series timer/

    Thanks again for all the help
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 20,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.0Hp Maxiglass/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    Quote Originally Posted by MJCP
    thanks for all the information, an update and one more question.

    The heater IS a millivolt system, I got the manual online and there are two terminals that can have a "firemans switch" added in.

    I have an Intermatic timer without the firemans switch.

    the earlier links to PoolCenter.com are very helpfull. I notice they sell a separate "firemans switch" for $26. But even the intermatic site has no information on the switch itself.

    Does anyone know it this switch is compatible with the 104 series timer/

    Thanks again for all the help
    Yes, the fireman's switch was made for the 100 series of timers. The 104 is a 220 volt system so be sure to shut off the breakers before working on it.
    Happy to help.

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Heater - major problems

    Update

    I bought the firemans switch from poolcenter, the instructions are quite simple, I will be adding it to the intermatic timer first chance I get! Thanks to all.
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 20,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.0Hp Maxiglass/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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