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Thread: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

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    transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    wanting to switch from pentair 320 to just liquid chlorine. how do I start? Bought 3 gallons of the home depot chlorine, says 10%.
    test daily I guess and add chlorine and see how much each week and when to add liquid chlorine? seems like lots of trial and error?

    appreciatively,
    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    Welcome to TFP!

    Have you found and read Pool School to get a better idea of what we teach and the chemistry?

    You use the poolcalculator to determine how much bleach is needed for a given desired FC rise.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    Additionally, once you get the poolcalculator mastered (easy enough) you can plan on the average daily FC loss of about 2.5 ppm and dose your pool accordingly. A bit of trial and error but not bad if you test accurately and dose accurately.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    K thx. Got the Taylor test kit, getting better. Takes a bit of time
    To get the hang of it, but learning new things every week. Yes I read
    Some of pool school, why I want to change to liquid. CyA got really
    High and boy it causes lots of trouble. Thanks!
    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    CyA got really High and boy it causes lots of trouble.
    Amen, brother. You are preaching to the TFP choir.

    Good on you for reading and beginning to understand what we teach/preach.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    Feeling good about this, you guys rock! Money and time savings coming!
    CYA 45-50
    fc 5.5
    cc .4
    ta 100 unadjusted
    calcium 575 bit perplexed here? did partial drain to fix CYA 6 weeks ago. might have done the test wrong?
    PH 7.4 ish

    pentair 320 has been off for about four days! so I can throw calhypo and trich aay I guess! maybe keep a little trich if I go on vacation.

    -do i adjust TA per taylor test kit guide?
    -single speed pump, so what range of run time? 6-8? 6 winter, 8 summer
    -go to home depot and other stores at least 2 times a month, so buying the jugs of chlorine is no problem.
    -If I test FC frequently, and keep it in the range per your guidelines, then do I ever really need to shock? maybe only if CC
    is above .5?
    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcatbobs
    calcium 575 bit perplexed here? did partial drain to fix CYA 6 weeks ago. might have done the test wrong?
    What was CH before draining and how much did you drain?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcatbobs
    -do i adjust TA per taylor test kit guide?
    Follow the recommendations in pool school: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...mmended_levels of 70-90 ppm. With that said, TA is one that generally you can let find it happy spot by adjusting ph down to 7.2 whenever it goes up to 7.8.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcatbobs
    -single speed pump, so what range of run time? 6-8? 6 winter, 8 summer
    See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-.../pump_run_time

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcatbobs
    -If I test FC frequently, and keep it in the range per your guidelines, then do I ever really need to shock? maybe only if CC
    is above .5?
    No reason to shock if you water is clear, your CC is <0.5 ppm, and you are not getting excessive chlorine consumption.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    I have the same chlorinator and switched to the Liquidator to use all-liquid bleach as well. It'll really reduce the number of tests you have to do and the amount of maintenance you have to worry about (with regards to adding chemicals). Install was simple and didn't require any drilling - plug-and-play and you'll retain access to your chlorinator should you need to increase the CYA.
    New Pool: 22 x 35 | StoneScape Mini - Midnight Blue | ~17,500 gallons | Jandy Equipment - Built spring 2015 (click for details and pictures)
    Old Pool: 16 x 30 | QuartzBrite | 14,000 gallons | Pentair Equipment - Built summer of 2013 (click for details and pictures)

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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    I have the taylor k-2006. It mentions an adjustment factor for TA, in replationship to CYA. Are you aware of this? Taylor recommends the adjustment, but does say those in the pool community question
    it and dont think it is necessary.
    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    Can you explain what you mean? I can't see how TA would have any bearing on CYA.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    You are referring to "Adjusted Total Alkalinity" (ATA). Here on tfp, we only talk about "Total Alkalinity" (TA) and any calculations that require ATA are done behind the scenes in the PoolMath Calculator (formerly poolcalculator) using the TA.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    I know about the pool calculator, use it. But wonder if the calcultor uses the adjustment formula that Taylor believes in?




    ROLE OF CYANURIC ACID (CYA) IN CHLORINATED OUTDOOR POOLS

    People usually refrain from discussing politics and religion in an effort to avoid controversy. In the pool industry, the question of cyanuric acid's effect on total alkalinity can be as contentious.

    What is the role of cyanuric acid in pool water? Does it affect the total alkalinity reading? Should the test results be adjusted? If so, by how much?

    Here's our take on cyanuric acid, total alkalinity, and their relationship.

    As a quick refresher, total alkalinity is the measure of the ability of water to resist changes in pH, or its "buffering capacity."

    Cyanuric acid, also called stabilizer, is commonly used in outdoor pools to reduce photodecomposition of available chlorine. When added to pool water, a fraction of the cyanuric acid (H3Cy) ionizes to form cyanurate (H2Cy-). The fraction that ionizes is pH dependent.

    When cyanuric acid is added to pools using unstabilized chlorine, the ionized cyanurate combines with available chlorine to form stable chloroisocyanurates.

    In pools using stabilized chlorine, stable chloroisocyanurates are formed without the separate addition of cyanuric acid since stablized chlorine sanitizers contain both chlorine and cyanuric acid as part of the molecule. However, an initial dosage of 20 ppm cyanuric acid is recommended to provide enough cyanurate for immediate stablization.

    Cyanuric acid also affects the buffering of pool water. A buffer system is composed of a weak acid and its salt. In pool water containing cyanuric acid, the predominate buffer systems are carbonic acid/bicarbonate and cyanuric acid/cyanurate. The buffer intensity of these buffer systems is both pH- and concentration-dependent. At recommended pH and cyanuric acid levels, the cyanuric acid/cyanurate system significantly contributes to the buffering of pool water.

    In addition to stabilizing available chlorine and buffering pool water, the cyanuric acid/cyanurate system contributes to total alkalinity since total alkalinity is the sum of all titratable alkaline substances and cyanurate is a titratable alkaline substance. Therefore, the total alkalinity titration measures both carbonate and cyanurate alkalinities. This affects water balance calculations because the alkalinity term in the Saturation Index equation is strictly carbonate alkalinity.

    To calculate the carbonate alkalinity use the following formula:

    AlkC = AlkTA - (Cy x CyF)
    where AlkC = carbonate alkalinity; AlkTA = measured total alkalinity;
    Cy = measured cyanuric acid; and
    CyF = cyanuric acid factor.

    For waters within recommended pH and cyanuric acid levels, using a CyF equal to 0.33 is appropriate. For waters outside the recommended pH range or waters containing high cyanuric acid, it becomes more important to use a CyF from the table below:

    pH
    6.5
    7.0
    7.2
    7.4
    7.8
    8.0

    CyF
    .11
    .22
    .26
    .30
    .35
    .36



    For example: if pH = 7.4; AlkTA = 100 ppm; and Cy = 50 ppm:
    AlkC = AlkTA - (Cy x CyF)
    AlkC = 100 - (50 x 0.30)
    AlkC = 85 ppm







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    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    As I indicated above, the csi calculation (calcite saturation index) in the PoolMath calculator (former poolcalculator) takes into account the carbonic alkalinity automatically without you having to do anything but input the TA and cya, it is just like Taylor says in the quote above.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: transition from pentair 320 to liquid chlorine

    ok great. thx. so I will always use pool calculator. sometimes I dont and was just curious on the pool forums position. love this program and thanks!
    greg white
    houston, texas
    19.3k,IG,colored plaster, Pentair
    clean/clear, 2hp, pa320,spa, rock/slide
    waterfall, install 7/2012.

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