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Thread: cracks in PVC

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    cracks in PVC

    I have 2 tiny cracks in the pvc bushing, one is clearly visible, the 2nd one shows up only when I put the bibb in. I don't care for the bibb, never used it.
    Water drips at different rates - I can get 1 drip per second or two, then I shut off and restart the pump and it drips a lot harder. I'd say it leaks about 1 gallon per hour and as soon as I shut off the pump it sucks air.

    Is there a way to remove bushing from Tee? It's glued and I don't think it's threaded

    Is there a way to find a pvc cap/pipe that would go on top of pvc tee, so that I could just glue it on?

    Would a flexible (rubber) pipe cap do the job? (like this one http://www.lowes.com/pd_23491-34146-...ductId=1065601) I'd have to heat it up to put it on, but would it work? (don't care for the bibb)

    Is locktite marine epoxy worth a try? The cracks are tiny, I'd have to use a needle or something to get glue in and I'd only be able to do it on the outside, while cracks are all the way through (the visible one about 1" on the outside and 1" deep)

    ...........
    Is there any reliable way to fix this without cutting pipes?

    If I have to cut the pipe, is there a tee with longer outlets so I would avoid using couplers? (I attached 2 more pictures of my setup (with ruler))

    Thanks
    23k in-ground plaster. Cartridge filter Hayward 450 or 550. Hayward 2ph pump.
    liquid chlorine, tablets occasionally when out of liquid and cya allows it. ph down.
    stabilizer (Had no cya last two openings, but never before that)
    no other chemicals used in years
    TF100.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    I'm afraid cutting is the only way to remove the bushing. You may be able to replace the T with a 90 degree elbow since you don't use the bib.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    If you really want to avoid cutting pipe, you could try gluing a 1/2" PVC threaded pipe plug into the hole. Put PVC glue in the threaded hole and on the plug threads and then screw the plug in. Only put the plug in snug, not tight, but as deep as possible. You will have to screw the plug in quickly because the glue starts to work pretty fast. Try to make it one smooth continuous motion without stopping. Allow the glue to dry overnight before pressurizing.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    I suspect the visible crack is also on the inside, in addition to being on the thread.

    I'd like to avoid cutting because it looks like I'd have to use 2 couples in addition to T or elbow, unless there are T or elbows out there with longer outlets.

    The best option would be - to find a pvc cap (or pipe that can be plugged) that could go on top of the T, but I don't if there's one of that size. Home Depot doesn't have it.

    Are there any other options? what if I cut the edge of the bushing and glue flat piece of pvc right to the edge of the T and then add rubber plug on top. Would that work? Or maybe drilling a 2" hole (I think that's the size of a pipe inside the T)

    Also, which glue is the best option if trying to fill the crack? The pvc marine epoxy or the purple primer/pvc cement ?
    23k in-ground plaster. Cartridge filter Hayward 450 or 550. Hayward 2ph pump.
    liquid chlorine, tablets occasionally when out of liquid and cya allows it. ph down.
    stabilizer (Had no cya last two openings, but never before that)
    no other chemicals used in years
    TF100.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    There are drill bits that are specifically designed to remove PVC from fittings. A popular brand is RamBit, but there are others. Fitting Saver is another. They are pretty expensive though.

    You could also try a 2½" PVC cap. The ID of a 2½" cap is ~2.875" so if the OD of the Tee is close to that it may work.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    I'd like to avoid cutting because it looks like I'd have to use 2 couples in addition to T or elbow, unless there are T or elbows out there with longer outlets.
    I hear you....that would be cumbersome and a bit amateurish looking. Many will disagree with me but you could probably fit a DWV "sweep" 90 in lieu of that T without couplers.

    It certainly is not pressure rated like schedule 40 fittings but, from experience, the pressure in pool systems is so low that DWV works just fine.....at least better than adding couplers. IMO.

    I will get hammered a bit for suggesting that but I am used to it because I am married.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    There are schedule 40 sweeps: http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?produ ... 90NSFSch40
    Although I am not sure they are "long" enough to fit what would be cut out removing the Tee.

    I am not sure what the issue is with just using 2 couplers and a 90, but the only other real option is trying to bore out the bushing and putting a new plug in.
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    I'm pretty sure that a glued in plug would work as long as you allow it to dry at lesst 8 hours before pressurizing.

    If you want to replumb, you could use two 45s to replace the 90. You might have to undo the union the get the new fittings in.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    I concur with James' recommendation......it's the most likely solution to seal up properly while at the same time preventing that crack from growing.

    The only other fix is cutting out the fitting and using an elbow and coupling to splice back in......which can be a tricky plumbing job if you're not accustomed to Sch 40 pipe and fittings assembly.

    I vote for the glue and threaded PVC plug as well....
    Mesa, AZ Spillover spa and inground pool, 12,500 G, pebble finish, Hayward C5030 (525sf) Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Installed July 2013, Hayward SWG T-Cell-15, Trident UV (I know, I know....was installed before I found this site!) Rock grotto waterfall, LED ColorLogic lighting, 110 BTU Heat Pro Electric Heat Pump, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 cleaner, TF-100 test kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    If you use a PVC cement like IPS Weld-On 725 Wet or Dry cement you can even pressurize within minutes of application if necessary, although full cure takes about 24 hours, but I've used this stuff to temporarily cap broken PVC pipes with water flowing.....it's very quick stuff!
    Mesa, AZ Spillover spa and inground pool, 12,500 G, pebble finish, Hayward C5030 (525sf) Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Installed July 2013, Hayward SWG T-Cell-15, Trident UV (I know, I know....was installed before I found this site!) Rock grotto waterfall, LED ColorLogic lighting, 110 BTU Heat Pro Electric Heat Pump, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 cleaner, TF-100 test kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    PVC cement does not technically "dry", it is a "solvent weld" cement which actually "melts" the PVC and causes it to fuse together....it "cures" is more accurate....
    Mesa, AZ Spillover spa and inground pool, 12,500 G, pebble finish, Hayward C5030 (525sf) Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Installed July 2013, Hayward SWG T-Cell-15, Trident UV (I know, I know....was installed before I found this site!) Rock grotto waterfall, LED ColorLogic lighting, 110 BTU Heat Pro Electric Heat Pump, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 cleaner, TF-100 test kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    If Home Depot does not have a 1/2" PVC threaded plug check with your local sprinkler supply store.....they ought to have 'em......
    Mesa, AZ Spillover spa and inground pool, 12,500 G, pebble finish, Hayward C5030 (525sf) Cartridge Filter, Hayward EcoStar VS Pump, Installed July 2013, Hayward SWG T-Cell-15, Trident UV (I know, I know....was installed before I found this site!) Rock grotto waterfall, LED ColorLogic lighting, 110 BTU Heat Pro Electric Heat Pump, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 cleaner, TF-100 test kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    Thanks guys.

    I looked this up on Lasco site and confirmed the info I learned the hard way -
    PVC threads are tapered, that's why most threaded fittings/plugs go only half way in and applying a little pressure breaks the female part
    Use sealant made for pvc threads. Do not use teflon tape nor pipe dope.

    I closed the pool, will deal with it next year.
    My pump started making noises once in a while and even turned off once, now I need to figure out what that is about. My guess is - the pump bucket wasn't full a couple of times and that may be the reason. Another thing I noticed - one of my skimmer baskets is falling apart and maybe some plastic piece made it through the pump basket to the pump... So I decided to add the chemicals while the pump still works and close the pool

    One of the reasons I try to avoid cutting pipes - I've never done this before and am afraid I won't do it right and it leaks at one of the connections it may end up costing me more than hiring someone to do it.

    But the leak is not nearly as bad as it was at the beginning. Now I get 1 drop in 1-2 seconds. I think the teflon tape (+ maybe dirt I vacuumed)was forced into the points of leakage and now acts like a sealant. When I shut off the pump it doesn't suck the air like it used to - I can not hear anything and when I restart pump hours later I may need to bleed the air just a little if at all.
    I had the same exact issue when I changed the gauge on my filter - probably put too much teflon, tightened a little too much and the thread housing cracked. I had water sipping last season but not this season and I believe teflon tape sealed the crack. I contacted Hayward and the first rep recommended permatex #2 instead of teflon, saying that's what they've been recommending for last xx years. I called back to confirm and sure enough the 2nd rep never heard of permatex #2 or recommending it and recommended teflon only. Will need to check their website to see if their documentation mentions anything




    Thanks
    23k in-ground plaster. Cartridge filter Hayward 450 or 550. Hayward 2ph pump.
    liquid chlorine, tablets occasionally when out of liquid and cya allows it. ph down.
    stabilizer (Had no cya last two openings, but never before that)
    no other chemicals used in years
    TF100.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    Do not use teflon tape nor pipe dope.
    That has not been my experience. I have used pipe dope (on larger than 3/4") and teflon (on 3/4" or less) on PVC for the last 10 years and simply don't have any leaks.

    Every threaded connection in my pool and equipment is made up this way. Every threaded connection in my rather extensive irrigation system is done the same way.

    Just like PVC cement, you have to develop a feel for what will give you a waterproof joint. Over tightening is probably the single most common cause for a leaky joint. Using too many wraps of tape may be the next most common issue.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: cracks in PVC

    Here's what lasco says:

    Don't use Teflon tape, Teflon paste or pipe dope. Do use a sealant.

    Teflon tape, Teflon paste and pipe dope is intended for metal pipe and fittings. Metal to metal fitting joints are more difficult to tighten than plastic; the surfaces tend to gall without the aid of such lubricants as Teflon or pipe dope. Plastic fittings do not need this lubrication.

    When Teflon tape is wrapped around plastic male threads it adds to the strain and tensile stress. The tendency of most installers is to incorrectly wrap several thickness of tape around the male threads, increasing stain and stress further.

    Teflon paste and pipe dope, just like Teflon tape, make threaded joints slippery. Their use on PVC fittings can be an invitation to over-torque.

    When working with threaded plastic fittings do use a proper sealant. The right sealant for threaded joints is non-hardening, compatible with plastic and doesn't add slipperiness.

    A non-hardening compound is forced by water pressure into potential points of leakage, thereby performing a true sealing function. Tapes and hardening pastes permit a leak path to develop when a joint is backed off, mechanically flexed, or expands with rising temperatures.
    23k in-ground plaster. Cartridge filter Hayward 450 or 550. Hayward 2ph pump.
    liquid chlorine, tablets occasionally when out of liquid and cya allows it. ph down.
    stabilizer (Had no cya last two openings, but never before that)
    no other chemicals used in years
    TF100.

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    Re: cracks in PVC

    What I take from that is if you use tape or dope you.....

    1. are tempted to wrap too many turns using tape (see my post above)

    2. If you use dope, you are tempted to mistakenly over tighten the joint. (see my post above)

    I don't disagree with either of those. That said, done correctly, both tape and dope are perfectly acceptable for a pvc joint as long as you don't do the above. Again, it takes a bit of practice and "feel" to do it correctly, but a pvc threaded joint can EASILY be made permanently water proof.

    If you loosen a joint made with either tape or dope (or anything else), cleaning thoroughly and completely remaking the joint is standard practice.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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