Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Cloudy water after treatment

  1. Back To Top    #1
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Cloudy water after treatment

    In an attempt to knock out a mild stain on the floor of my deep end, I think I have caused larger issues.

    It was recomended to me to use Sparkle Conquest to knock out the stain. Pool has always been crystal clear with no signs of algae. All I ever do is adjust my SWG higher when we in the height of the summer and add Muriatic acid to keep my pH down. I never use any other products till now. Here's a timeline of the steps I've have taken and where I am at now:

    Friday night I turned off my Salt water clorinator to bring down my clorinine as all sequestering agents (Conquest in my case) work better in a low CL environment.

    Saturday Morning I add some Muriatic acid to lower pH to 7.0-7.2. I let the pool run all morning and afternoon with SWG off in pure sunshine. I test FC and I'm still holding 5.0 FC (I have adeqate CYA levels). Sat afternoon I put 3/4 gallon of Polyquat 60 in (to protect pool once FC eventually will drop). Run filter till 4:00pm

    Sunday morning: Pool still cystal clear. Test again around 10:00 am. pH 7.0, FC 3.0 (finally inching lower.) At 11:00pm I add 2 qts of Sparkle Conquest. Run filter. I get home around 3:30. Look at the water and pool still cystal clear, but stain still present. I think "oh well" waste of money on the Conquest or maybe it will just take longer. I figure mission unsucessful, so starting Monady (today) I will turn SWG back on and chalk up experience as another failed attempt to rid this stain. I leave house for a few hours. Filter turns off at 4:00 pm.

    Well.... I get home at 8:30 pm. Turn the pool light on and go outside. The water is MILKY WHITE CLOUDY! I can barely make out the second step and can't see the 3rd at all. Run Filter all night and at 5:00 am this morning (Monday) maybe a touch better as I can see the 3rd step. But not much beyond that.

    Did the Polyquat do this (which I added Sat) or the Conquest (which I added yest afternoon)? Or a combo of both? And what now?

    Calcium hardness has always been right around 280-300
    It's a Gunite pool with while plaster
    38k gallons.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    What in the world is "Sparkle Conquest" Can you tell us what's in it?

    Who suggested you use it?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    The MSDS for Sparkle Conquest shows it to be 60% HEDP (the rest, water) which is our recommended metal sequestrant. The recommended amount of Polyquat is 9 ounces per 10,000 gallons (16 ounces max, when there is visible algae growth) so in your 38,000 gallon pool that would be 34.2 ounces. 3/4 gallon of Polyquat is 96 ounces so you significantly overdosed the Polyquat. That might account for some of the cloudiness. The good news is that it should filter out so keep your pump/filter running 24/7. Polyquat is also a clarifier so there may have been fine particles in your pool that the Polyquat has now bonded to and coalesced causing the cloudiness that needs to be cleared. Normally, with smaller doses, one doesn't see this and the coagulation/filtration process is slower over a longer period of time.

    You didn't say how much Sparkle Conquest you used so it's possible you overdosed that as well. The recommended dose is 1 ounce per 5,000 gallons so in your 38,000 gallon pool that would be 7.6 ounces. How much did you use?
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  4. Back To Top    #4
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    I used 2 QTs. It calls for 1 qt per 20k gallons. Anyway. Pool is clear right now. But there's a white power along the edges if I brush it the white cloud reappears. So whatever was making it cloudy is now settled on the bottom. Vacuum to waste I guess?
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  5. Back To Top    #5

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Vacuum to waste I guess?
    Yes..."waste" or "filter", whichever works best for you but get it out of your pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Sparkle Conquest[attachment=0:z2ofs4bv]Conquest.JPG[/attachment:z2ofs4bv]
    Label[attachment=1:z2ofs4bv]Label.JPG[/attachment:z2ofs4bv]
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  7. Back To Top    #7
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    This is what my Dolphin is picking up. It's like a putty consistency in the bag. But very powdery in the water. I think the Conquest Sequestered the Clacium Scale right off the plaster. Hopefully it's not the plaster breaking down!
    [attachment=1:3q74so3j]Bag 1.JPG[/attachment:3q74so3j][attachment=0:3q74so3j]Bag 2.JPG[/attachment:3q74so3j]
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  8. Back To Top    #8
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    And here is some shots of the pool with the white powder on the steps. Also I uploaded a video on youtube to show how the powder clouds up the pool when stirred up.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VcTsFXXeLo
    [attachment=1:22nwmtx6]Pool Step.JPG[/attachment:22nwmtx6][attachment=0:22nwmtx6]Pool 2.JPG[/attachment:22nwmtx6]
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  9. Back To Top    #9
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Well. I posted as much as I can in videos and pictures. I know you can't see much detail in the pics as youy really have to reduce the file size down to upload them on this site. I have come to the conclusion that the Sparkle Conquest must have broken down and sequestered a good amount of calcium scale off the walls. I never felt I had terrible scale, but this is my best guess as to what this white powder is. I am happy to report that the Dolphin is doing a great job in picking it all up. The pool is nice and clear now. A few more cycles with the Dolphin and a cleaning of the filter and I'm sure I'll be good to go. And I am brigging the CL leavels back slowly with my SWG.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  10. Back To Top    #10
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    I just had another thought. Earlier this season I added Borates to my pool via the method listed in this forum using 20 Mule Team Borax. Being that Borates are a mineral.... And the job of a Sequestering agent is to Sequester minerals.... I am now thinking that the white powder could be the Borax coming out of solution in the presence of the Conquest. It surely looks exactly like it. Any thoughts on that theory? I'll be curious to do a Borate test when I get home and see if my Borates have dropped.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  11. Back To Top    #11

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Sequestrants hold metals in solution.....they do not cause them to precipitate.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    I am aware of that. So do you have a theory what is being pulled out of solution in my pool? This is the reason I come here for the expert advice.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  13. Back To Top    #13

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Well, of course a tenant of BBB is to never put things into your pool when you are not sure of the outcome. I have no clue what caused the precipitation or what it is (without just guessing) so that's the very limited extent of my "quasi-expert" advice.

    Keep your pool water management as simple as possible and the surprises will be minimized.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Was a clarifier ever added to the pool, or an anionic (negatively charged) metal sequestrant such as poly acrylic acid (PAA)? Polyquat is a cationic (positively charged) clarifier and will create a precipitated mess with an anionic clarifier as they will combine to form a precipitate.

    You had earlier written that you dosed 3/4 gallon, not 2 quarts, so is why I thought you overdosed (also, some other brands give a different initial dose instruction) though that was for the Polyquat which does sound like it was overdosed (but I wouldn't expect it to form that much precipitate regardless).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. Back To Top    #15
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    No. Never used a clarifier. Untill now never used anything really except the very basics. I manage my pH rise with MA, and I manage my FC with my SWG. Can't get much simpler than that. This is the first time my pool has ever seen an algecide. Never had a need for one.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  16. Back To Top    #16
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    Update: (For anyone who cares on this topic)... Perhaps someone down the road months or years from now will do a search and find this information I am digging up useful.

    I am even more convinced that the Borax is what is percipitating out of my water. This Sparkle Conquest is an amazing product. It's clearly not your ordinary Sequestering Agent. I spoke with a rep at the manufacture's lab of this product. And I pulled this excerpt from the label as well:

    "Add this product directly to pool water while walking around perimeter at the rate of 1 quart per 20,000 gallons. In freshly filled pools where mineral presence is suspected, add product to the water several hours before adjusting pH or adding chlorine. This allows the product to sequest minerals before chemicals can cause them to discolor the water or stain the pool finish. When this product is added to mineral discolored pools, it will eliminate the unwanted color and should remove many stains that regularly occur in pools in their normal operation
    Turn off the filtration system in the evening and allow the water to settle overnight. The next morning, vacuum any settled precipitate to waste. Depending upon mineral content, this procedure may have to be repeated each morning until pool floor is clean the next morning. Squestering occurs in a few hours. Stain removal will start to occur immediately but will take up to a week to penetrate deeply imbedded stain."

    Borax is a mineral. It makes perfect sense that this product would pull that out of solution. Plus if you look at my pictures, you can see it looks exactly like the Boarax detergent. I will test tonight with my Borate strip and post back. But the pool looks great and OH, by the way..... Original stain is gonzo.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  17. Back To Top    #17

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    There seems to be a semantics issue here. Sequestering agents for pools are used tokeep minerals, usually iron, in their soluble form....in other words it prevents them from coming out of solution into a precipitate.

    I can't understand their verbage when they say it sequesters minerals yet they expect them to precipitate.....those two are the precise opposite in my mind.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    The word sequester comes from the Latin word sequestrare meaning to "stand apart". It is also defined as "to set aside; to separate and reject; to eliminate." In chemistry the term "sequester" as in sequester metal you must either remove it from solution or combine it with something else to prevent it from coming out of solution.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

  19. Back To Top    #19

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    So, in plain terms, are you saying a sequestrant precipitates metals?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20
    mikemass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northern Howell, NJ
    Posts
    484

    Re: Cloudy water after treatment

    I'm not sure I have the knowledge to say. But in the strictest sense of the definition I'd say it can be either: Sequester - "Separate- set aside" So if a metal stain (or calcium scale) is on the surface, it can be said that to "sequester" it means to "seaparte" it from the surface, whether it be in solution form or an unattached precipitate.

    In the case of my once dissolved Borates, it is now "separated" from solution and is now in the form of a percipitate that can be manually removed through vacumming.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •