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Thread: New to spa's........good with pool.

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    New to spa's........good with pool.

    So it's my 2nd day since I filled my 200 gallon spa.

    Temp is set to 104 (wife likes it hot)

    I had adjusted my levels on day one by adding what was needed. Here is how it stands now,

    PH - still high at 8.2
    TA - 90
    Ch- 150
    CYA- 11.4 as of now( slowly raising nightly with dichlor) few more days till 20-30 range then I'll switch to bleach.
    FC - 7

    It looks as though now that my TA is where it needs to be, I can lower my PH and hope it stays put.
    I read acid lowers PH , where do I get it from?

    Doesn't sound safe at all.....
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Just found REDUCE PH in my spa kit, says
    "Product notes: Also called Spa Down or pH Down. Contains sodium bisulfate 93.2%. Also known as dry acid."
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Most of us use muriatic acid to lower pH but the dry acid will work.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Thanks, i am gonna test today and see if it dropped to 7.4
    I wanna get my levels set before getting in.

    What do you think about where my levels sit?
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    They look pretty good, but your FC is pretty high for a CYA of 11.4. How did you figure the CYA is 11.4? Are you using the Pool Calc to keep track of it by the amount of Dichlor you've used? If so, Kudos!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    In a spa you want TA lower than is typical for pools, so keep on top of lowering your ph with either dry acid or Muriatic Acid (my preference as well) when it gets to 7.8 and go ahead and let the TA drop down to 50 ppm.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    They look pretty good, but your FC is pretty high for a CYA of 11.4. How did you figure the CYA is 11.4? Are you using the Pool Calc to keep track of it by the amount of Dichlor you've used? If so, Kudos!
    Yes the FC is high since I am trying to raise CYA. Fresh fill so i started at 0.

    I use the Pool Calc after each test to correctly add the perfect amount of any chemical with the help of my ounce scale, so it also tells me how much I raised my CYA per ounce of dichlor I add

    Interesting about TA level, I have read the sticky of using chlorine in hot tubs and it says 80-90 if I remember correctly. I would like to lower TA now and see if that stabilizes the PH. Hopefully when I get home and test the PH it's normal. I wanna use the tub tonight!
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    The Using Chlorine in a Spa sticky needs to be updated to say that the TA target is 50 ppm and that 50 ppm Borates are required, not optional.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    The Using Chlorine in a Spa sticky needs to be updated to say that the TA target is 50 ppm and that 50 ppm Borates are required, not optional.
    Ohhh
    Looks like I'll have to lower TA and add Borates.
    Can I use borax?

    Will it drive my PH way up?
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    If you use 20 Mule Team Borax then you need to also add acid and should do so by alternating adding Borax and acid. Using boric acid is generally easier, but somewhat more expensive (though with spa volumes, it's still pretty cheap).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    If you use 20 Mule Team Borax then you need to also add acid and should do so by alternating adding Borax and acid. Using boric acid is generally easier, but somewhat more expensive (though with spa volumes, it's still pretty cheap).
    Not sure if I understand

    I tested my water this morning.

    Right now my TA is at 50.

    My PH came down to 7.2

    Can I add my borax as per pool calc?
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Yes, if you put in your spa volume you can use The Pool Calculator to calculate how much 20 Mule Team Borax and how much acid (either Muriatic Acid or dry acid) you need to add. You should split the doses in half and alternate between the two.

    As for the boric acid, that's another alternative instead of using Borax and acid. The Pool Calculator can also calculate the amount of boric acid you would need if you choose to use that. The Recommended Pool Chemicals article in the Pool School lists a couple of sources for boric acid (DudaDiesel is another source).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    I know borax raises PH. What is 50ppm of borax gonna do to my ph level?
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Borax raises pH and acid lowers it so when you add both they counteract each other in terms of pH. The net result in the water is boric acid and some borate ions. The purpose of having 50 ppm of these is to provide additional pH buffering, especially when the TA is lowered to 50 ppm. The 50 ppm Borates slows down the rate of pH rise in the spa. Think of it as an alternate pH buffer to TA. The problem with using TA (carbonates) as a pH buffer is that they are also a SOURCE of rising pH due to carbon dioxide outgassing. This is why we recommend lowering the TA level and using an additional pH buffer of 50 ppm Borates since the latter are not a source of rising pH.

    As a concrete example, if you were to have 80 ppm TA in the spa and no borates and 10% of the carbonates outgassed as carbon dioxide, then the pH would rise from 7.5 to 8.38.

    If you were to lower the TA to 50 ppm, then perhaps only 5% of the carbonates get outgassed if you target a starting pH of 7.7 in which case it would rise to 8.08. However, if you were to add 50 ppm Borates, then the pH would only rise to 7.74.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Ok so I tested my water today. PH is over 8 which I expected.
    TA jumped to 200.

    Now that more borax is in, can I just add the acid to lower TA back to 50?
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Did you add both the borax and the acid? You should have split up the dosages and not added all the borates at once since that brings the pH too high. If you did that, just add the acid now and cross your fingers that you didn't cause scaling in your spa.

    What was the TA before you added the borates? You should have lowered the TA before adding the borates since it is far easier to do so without the borates in the water. Now it's going to be harder to get them lowered -- not impossible, but harder. You add acid and aerate at low pH following the Lower Total Alkalinity procedure in the Pool School.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Just add a teacup of acid (or use a demand calculator if you know the actual PH). Check it every 2 hours (add a tad more if needed) until it reaches about 7.4. That is what I have had to do. It is easy to overshoot the chemicals in a spa, so go slow.

    I plan on using boric acid in mine since it is PH neutral.
    John (DIYer). Concrete, approximately 13,000 gallon in-ground pool with adjoining concrete spa. Approximately 40 years old. Hayward Super II pump for pool and legacy Anthony Sta-Rite bronze pump CF6 for spa, VA-26 filter,(2 sets), Rheem propane heater for spa. HASA Liquidator for pool.

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    Re: New to spa's........good with pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Did you add both the borax and the acid? You should have split up the dosages and not added all the borates at once since that brings the pH too high. If you did that, just add the acid now and cross your fingers that you didn't cause scaling in your spa.

    What was the TA before you added the borates? You should have lowered the TA before adding the borates since it is far easier to do so without the borates in the water. Now it's going to be harder to get them lowered -- not impossible, but harder. You add acid and aerate at low pH following the Lower Total Alkalinity procedure in the Pool School.
    The TA was at 50. I added all the borax slowly but at one time.
    The PH was also at 7.

    Now both are sky high. So I will start to slowly add the acid.
    18' x 52" AGP 2hp 2 speed pump with Clearwater II 67 GPM DE filter
    200 gallon EZ SPA 1hp 2 speed GREEN pump

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