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Thread: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

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    Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Hi. First post here. Been reading the site for a week or so trying to get a grip on the concepts. It's a little bit like taking a drink of water with a fire hose!
    I imagine I have caused a problem with trichloride pucks. We moved in to this home a month ago, water was blue and sparkly. Got it tested at pool store and they recommended adding pucks to "maintain" it. They also recommended Muriatic Acid 1/2 gallon. I added that and started pucking away with our pool duck. The pool tolerated this alright until we had a haboob ( big dust storm here in Phoenix ) and 2 days of rain. Pool started stinking and water clouded up and went green.
    I noted algae on walls and steps then and went to the pool store again. They tested it and recommended shocking and raising alkalinity in the pool and sold me "Total Alkalinity" ( 15 lbs ) and a powder chlorine to shock with. I added those and when it didn't seem to be helping I started researching online and reading here. Ordered the TF-100 kit and have my first results.

    FC - 11
    CC - 0.5
    pH - 7.2
    TA - 130
    CH - 300
    CYA - 90
    Borates - (I don't believe I am using them)

    I was baffled at the CYA results coming so high but after pouring through threads I get the impression my trichloride "duck pucks" are adding 6ppm per 9 of chlorine. Bwuhhh.. I did not know there were more to these than chlorine.
    I hope I am testing correctly. Terrified to make a move adding anything else until I know my numbers make sense. I wanted to trust the chemistry to the pool store but, well, it looks like they're using strips.

    I am currently running the pump 24/7 going on 2 weeks now, I brush every day and am starting to get buff from this
    Currently running the skimmer most of the time because my "The Poolcleaner" suction 4wheel cleaner says not to use it while shocking the water, and I think I am still in shock levels so I vacuum the slime off the bottom/ deep end about a 1/2 hour after brushing.

    Any advice is welcome and appreciated!
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Welcome to TFP!

    Glad you found out what those pucks were doing before it got too bad.

    Yes, your numbers do make sense.

    Trust your own results. Pool store results are often skewed, with the result of you being asked to buy unneeded chemicals for your pool.

    Have you read in pool school about how to SLAM your pool? Check the FC/CYA chart, also in pool school, for the FC level you will need to maintain to clear the algae from your water.

    It may make sense for you to do a partial drain/refill to lower your CYA first, as this will reduce the amount of bleach/liquid chlorine you will need to use for the entire process.

    Keep us posted as you go through the SLAM.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Thanks for the reply. I retested a few hours later and got different results without changing anything ( other than removing my puck duck )
    I attribute this to me learning the tests

    FC - 7
    CC - 0.5
    PH - 7.2
    TA - 120
    CH - 300
    CYA - 70

    Earlier sample was immediately after brush/vac pool. Going to go buy copious quantities of bleach tonight and start to SLAM this thing.
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Keep us posted. Any questions don't hesitate!
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Shot for Shock level FC of 24 and landed @ 27 ppm FC.
    I was dropping my R-0871 drops in counting over 50 and thinking .. dear God. What have I DONE? Then a few drops later the clarity had set in. PHEW! Thought I really nuked it!
    It looks like my CC came up from 0.5 to 1 - does that sound accurate and / or ok?
    Looking forward to seeing what the levels look like in the morning

    {edit} incidentally I added 4 121 oz jugs of 8.25% bleach and went from 7 to 27 FC.
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    The rise in CC would be expected in a green pool, once you have enough FC to actually kill faster than the algae can reproduce. It will bounce around somewhat.

    The extra rise over what you expected could be from a miscalculation of your pool volume. Play around with http://www.poolcalculator.com to see if it is larger or smaller.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    It looks like you have a very solid grasp of what you need to do. Don't worry about pH during the SLAM, as it is unreliable when the FC is at elevated levels greater than 10 or so.

    I was a complete newbie at the start of summer after taking over for an aging father-in-law. He didn't have the CYA problem, but the CH problem that is associated with pucks using Calcium Hypochlorite, which is a touch easier to work with if you keep a keen eye on the pH....(I was constantly stalking Rich's threads).

    Just follow the SLAM as best you can. I tried to test and dose chlorine at a minimum of 3 times a day, but hey, life happens around you (work, appointments, etc).

    Watch your filter pressure, as all the dead algae getting caught in the filter can cause pressure to build. Frequent backwashes/ filter cleanings may be needed in that time.

    It is hard to say how much bleach you will need, as all pools are in different shape. Just to give you an idea of what I went through, my SLAM took approx. 35 gallons of 12.5%. It was a swamp. Since then (mid July), I have used 15 gallons to maintain the pool, but could have gotten away with less as my FIL was dosing it, and I wanted to insure there was ample amounts of FC in pool, NO Relapse Please!

    Remember, vacuuming to waste is your friend if you want to lower CYA levels. Other members here will help to recommend a CYA level for your geographic area.

    If you get discouraged, look at some of the success stories here. I can proudly say that the pool I am taking care of has NEVER EVER looked better. You put a dime on the bottom of the pool, I will tell you heads or tails, maybe even the year!

    This place is great. People are eager to help and encourage you to drive on....

    Best of luck....slay the monster

    I am off shortly to put my FIL pool to bed for the winter, knowing that when we open it next year, well, will be a piece of cake....
    13500 Gal. Above Ground. Vinyl. Hayward E-100 Highrate Sand Filter with Hayward Power Flow LX pump. Installed 2006.

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    FC of 26 today. I was surprised that it only went down that much. Is this because of my high CYA?
    Did a brush and vac to waste and am waiting for the water to fill up enough to run the skimmer again.
    Will retest again when I can run the skimmer a bit and recover from the food coma my wife put me in with oatmeal waffles

    {PS/edit:} The water looks a bit bluer than yesterday, and though while still green the water already appears more sparkly than recent days
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    So three hours later I ran tests again. Seems the autofiller is still catching up on the water level, so I probably should have waited a bit.
    FC - 25.5
    CC - 0.5
    PH - 7.8 ( little jump there, but high FC for sure )
    TA - 300 - Massive spike, I think I botched the test looking for "redder" results.
    CYA - 80 - up 10. I tested this 3x since I had left over mixed reagents. The "subjectiveness" of this test is driving me a tad crazy. I had hoped for a drop in CYA based on doing some vacuum to waste today. I lowered the water enough to challenge the skimmer so I attribute the still high numbers to the water not being fully replaced yet and my perception of the test. ( not seeing the black dot meaning enough "cloudy" liquid to obscure it from view: should this be no impression left of a dark area at all or just not see the defined lines of the dot? )
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Seems the autofiller is still catching up on the water level
    Turn your auto-fill off during the SLAM. You can never get valid test results when you are introducing new water.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Ahh ok thanks.
    I was thinking I needed to replace some to get the CYA down
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    I would suggest replacing water to get the CYA down around 50ppm before you continue to SLAM.
    Are you testing outside with your back to the sun and the tube at waist leve?
    Are you pouring the mixture back and forth a few times?
    At a higher level, I tend to try the test a few times, then pour out half and add tap water and then try the test again a few times to see if the result is about 50% of what I expected ... it is a little easier to differentiate the smaller numbers IMO.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    I had been testing indoors- but will try the back to the sun method for CYA.
    I had not been pouring to mix but will do. I was mixing in the dropper by shaking then remixing after 30 seconds.
    Will try the test/repeat/50% test you described today.

    Thanks a ton for the responses. It's a daunting task to go at alone and with little experience but hearing from board members with experience helps a lot!

    One more noobly question ( gotta meet my quota ) : Do you do your PH tests using the basic K-1000 blue box or is there a more comprehensive one not detailed in the white cheat sheet? My tests are in the measurable readings range but I saw that "Do not record" bit. Is that more pertinent to the FC test only?
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    I meant pouring back and forth to get a few readings with the same mixture ... not to mix it up that way.

    The blue box contains the only pH test. I would record everything you test to have a record log ... although I think what you are mentioning refers to the yellow OTO chlorine test which is not as accurate as the FAS-DPD chlorine test.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Oh Haha that makes sense.
    Thanks again!
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    FC - 17
    PH - 7.2 ( perhaps )
    CYA - 60

    I've vacuumed to waste some but seems not enough to bring to CYA below 60. Added more bleach shooting for 20 FC.
    The pool appearance has been gradually shifting to more blue hues, and this morning I can see the drain!
    Progress!

    Been brushing the pool 3x a day- based on if I can see *any* algae when I start. I believe my sand filter may need some DE. It seems the filtration is weak. Hopefully it is that and not a bigger problem. When backwashing I can see some sand in the water as well as little twigs that remind me of the "floaty" pods you see on seaweed- only much smaller. Maybe that's whats left of leaves that got past the skimmer filter and the hair filter.
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Update time w/ good news.
    I added a cup of DE to my sand filter and by the next morning filtration was already improved. Performed a backwash that actually contained green muck! Before this it had always been minor collection of .. greenery.
    Re-added DE after backwash.

    Been slamming and keeping FC around 20 ppm daily.
    Yesterday I tried a tentative OCLT and went from FC 17 to 16 this morning
    Only my CH looks terrible to me and TA may need adjustment. Oh, guess CC is above levels to be done slamming. Here's the report:

    FC - 16
    CC - 1
    pH - 7.6
    TA - 80
    CH - 450 ( what? )
    CYA - 60

    Happy to say this mornings algae brushing produced nigh invisible results compared to massive trails and clouds a week ago.
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    disregard your TA and CH for now. You can deal with them later and they are not bad.

    You should focus on keeping your FC up about 24 ppm.....not 16. Brush, backwash and vacuum as needed but KEEP THAT CHLORINE UP. Your SLAM will be drawn out and possibly unsuccessful unless you are diligent with the chlorine maintenance.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    Thanks


    Edit: Back up @ 26 ppm FC as we aren't done SLAMming after all.
    Looking forward to my 3 checkpoints being complete so its over!
    Overnight loss - check
    Clarity- check
    cc 0.5, not quite check.
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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    Re: Noob, green water 2 weeks, learning TF-100

    FC - 24 ( down one from 25 at dark last night)
    CC - 0.5
    Clarity blue and clear*

    *But... when I brush I do ( first brush of the day ) get some light clouding following the brush. I assume this means I am still not done slamming? I have read the algae should be white if dead. Is it just dirt in the water? Or would that not hug the walls and floor?
    Argh. So close, but yet so far!
    22K Gal, IG Plaster, 1 Hp Magnetek Centurion Pump, Hayward Sand Filter, "The Poolcleaner" 4W, BBB since 9/21/13

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