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Thread: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlorine

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    cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlorine

    Hi All - thanks for taking the time to read this post.

    • oval shaped pool - about 11K to 12K gallons
      climate - central Florida
      time - between May and Sept
      rain - a lot for short periods of time almost every day
      filter cartridge cj200
      1.5 HP pump
      swimpure tc9 salt generator
      pebbletech pool surface


    I have an issue I need clarification and verification on.

    I switched from a 6 year old chlorine pool (3" Stabilized tablets - inline feeder system) to a Hayward TC9 SwimPure system back in then end of June 2013.
    Note: Inline chlorination system did not always worked right, so OTO readings seemed very high at times, mostly always got a chlorine reading.
    Note: I am not that familiar with free chlorine and total chlorine terminology

    I over-salted the pool, drained half, filled fresh, got salt to 3200 PPM. Water tested at local pool store - no phosphates, etc water chem is good except for Stabilizer is high.

    Everything seems to be running well.

    Generator at 50 to 60 %.

    Used Salinity shock packs weekly and maintained acid, was told that I did not need to use the Salinity packs that often.

    Here is where I noticed the issue: My chlorine levels were not being maintained by the SG.

    After packets seem to where off noted that chlorine was not reading with OTO.

    Come labor day - no chlorine in pool, very cloudy.

    Had salt cell and chems checked, worked / OK - used tester at store and submerged in bucket of pool water and saw it working.

    Verdict - all hardware is working as expected.

    Professional, replaces cell anyway as he was called out to replace under warranty.

    Takes water sample - says all chems are good, except Stabilizer is through the roof and can be causing the problem of No chlorine reading with OTO.

    Says I need to drain half my pool, maybe more.

    Is there anything I can do about this?

    Do they cell a chemical to regulate the cyanuric, he said they do - but it is very expensive and it does not work.

    Anyone else experience this?

    Thanks

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    We need actual test numbers to tell you what is wrong with the water and the best place to get accurate numbers is from your own test kit. That said along with your chlorine history and others saying the CYA is high, most likely you will need to replace more water. With a SWG you want the CYA to be 80 ppm.

    What is most likely happening is that you have organics in the water and the SWG can not produce enough chlorine to kill off the organics. Having clear water does not mean that there isn't any organics in the water. SWG's can make enough chorine to keep the water clear looking but not enough to stay ahead of the organics. These types of organics are called nascent algae, algae in the water but you can not see a bloom yet. Having too high of CYA makes the chlorine less potent and you need more chlorine to make it effective against algae, see the Chlorine/CYA chart in my signature.

    A quick summary;
    1. You need a test kit, see my signature, without it you will be endlessly fighting this problem and spending a lot of money at the pool store.
    2. Most likely you will need to replace some water. Will not know how much until you get an accurate number for the CYA level.
    3. The SWG is working fine, the problem is the water chemistry.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    +1 what ping said.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Thanks for your reply - the pool professional told me that the CYA was well over 100, however pinch-a-penny records also show:

    June - 100
    July - 105
    August - 100
    Sept - 100

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Most CYA test max out at 100 and any reading above that is just a wild guess for the most part. If you have the right CYA test, then you can use half tap water and half pool water for the sample and then multiply that result by 2. The right type of test is included in the test kits we recommend.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    I came here a few years ago looking for advise after reading the post I signed in, I followed their directions and the pool has been in very good condition since then, believe me the best thing I purchased is a great test kit that they recommended, I now enjoy keeping track of my pool test results, this way I know exactly what they are not from maybe some part time help the pool store hired, believe me it saved me money in the long run.
    12,000 gal. 14x28 Inground vinyl liner (2004), 1 HP. Jacuzzi magnum pump,
    Raypak heater, Jacuzzi laser sand filter,Autopilot DIG-220 SWG, 35/22 cell,
    TF-100 test kit,K-1766 saltwater test kit, speedstir

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Thanks all - something is still not right here. I just tested the water exactly as stated with CYA test strips.

    I get a reading at or between 90 and 100.

    The strips can read CYA up to 300. The bottle shows that anywhere from 30-50 is ideal but 100 falls in the OK range.

    So if my CYA is at 100 - and all other chemicals are perfect - should I be maintaining a chlorine reading with the SWG running 8 hours a day at 50%?

    I will report back in a few days, as I needed to shock the pool with 2 gallons of liquid chlorine because of the issues I was having.
    So even after changing the SWG cell it is still too soon to see if the device is maintaining my chlorine.

    Thanks for your help.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    CYA test strips are not accurate. You need a good test kit to test your CYA level accurately.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Even if the CYA is 100, you have organics in the water and the SWG can not get ahead of the organics. All of my posts above describe what is happening and you will need to SLAM the pool to get rid of the organics. Read all you can about the SLAM process, the link is in my signature.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    So Ping - are saying I should not partially drain the pool and refill then?

    Thanks

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Never mind - I saw this in the chart post:

    "The shock levels shown have equivalent effective disinfecting chlorine amounts. At high CYA levels it may be impractical to use such high FC levels, lower FC levels are often sufficient though they take longer to kill algae. At very high CYA levels, over 80, a partial drain/refill to lower the CYA level is usually required."

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    You need a good test kit before you start replacing water. Right now you true CYA level is unknown. I suppose you could replace half the water as a head start and hope you do not end up too low.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    OK as I stated, here is an update.

    About 2 weeks ago.
    Prior to pool guy coming out, added 2 gallons of liquid chlorine just to prevent any new algae growth and get me by until we figure out what is going on.

    We tested and proved that the SWG was working, but pool guy swapped it out anyway.

    Stabilizer was over 100.
    Was told to drain pool a little.
    Drained pool about 12 inches.
    Added fresh water.
    New SWG running at 50% now since 9/21
    Had water tested yesterday 9/30
    Stabilizer was at 90
    PH 7.7
    Total and Free Chlorine were at at 3 ppm
    Alkalinity: 120 PPM
    Calcium: 33.
    dissolved solids: 3500
    Salt: 3200

    Today - Chlorine seems a bit lower that previously, so I am concerned that the SWG at 50% is not able to maintain the 3 as needed. So I boosted it up to 100% to see If I get any difference. Pool guy told me not to drain any more water just yet.

    I am looking up the SLAM process as well.

    Thanks all

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    So, 9 days later and you still do not have a good test kit ... so you can not properly determine IF you need to SLAM and will not be able to follow the process correctly if you do.

    That is, unless you did order a good test kit and for whatever reason still thought it was a good idea to have a pool store test your water which has repeatedly been proven to be a waste of time on this forum.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Jason - I got a cyanuric acid test kit and had this one already: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/produ ... KitID=2230 and order this TF Test Kit's TF100 (East Coast) . So I am set. BTW The "pool guy" I am talking about is a technician from a pool company, not a store - who has all the state of the stuff and then some that you are recommending. So I am not sure why you assumed, I did not get a "good" test kit.

    BTW - not sure why you are talking to me like that. Forums are designed for communities to help one another from those who are experienced. The professionals do it in a manner that is not demeaning. So please - think next time before you post a response to a newbie about something.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Sorry you took it that way ... can you show me where you stated you had the K-2006 or that you have also now have the TF-100?

    The results you posted smell of pool store testing due to the "dissolved solids" which is not part of the any kit we recommend. And we VERY much prefer seeing YOUR test results as it is the key to understanding and taking control of your pool.

    BTW, pool company employees often are no better than the pool store employees. We see it time and again that the builders do not have the first clue about the chemistry. Maybe you are lucky and have a good tech, but forum history does not support that.

    Bottom line, you need to decide what methods you are going to follow as getting advice from us and a pool store / technician is just going to lead to confusion.

    As far as a path forward:
    - Your CYA appears to still be a bit high, so lowering that would be good.
    - And then raising the FC up to at least 10+ppm with bleach and doing the OCLT (with the SWG off) will tell you if you need to SLAM
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Thank you, I appreciate your apology. - I have not gotten the TF-100 yet it is on order (I want to have all the things I need) - I'll redo with the K-2006 and update here. But you are correct, those were the numbers he gave me over the phone, from his "lab" - as he called it. I could only "trust" him as I don't know any better - that is why I am on the forums. All I know is that it wasn't a pinch-a-penny or a Leslie's. It was some independent pool company that is under a contracted with Hayward for warranty matters. They gave me the number and had me call them to originally swap out my SWG. - I am new to this whole thing and so I am learning. Thanks again.

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    Re: cyanuric acid stabilizer too high in Salt Pool - No chlo

    Helping you understand just a bit, it is frustrating to us frequent responders when it appears a member has not taken our suggested advice about testing.

    An absolute VERY important part of what we teach is to trust your own testing. We then know your results are valid and dependable (we can almost always tell if you made a testing error and can help you with that).

    With pool stores or any outside source it is a complete crapshoot as to whether there results are dependable so it sorta' puts us back to square one in the advice we offer.

    You are not alone as many others do the same thing and the frustration builds to a point where stronger words are often used. I have been guilty of the same thing more than I care to admit. It's not personal in any way.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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