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Thread: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

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    Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    I have a Quik Clean (version 1) in-floor system in a 12,000 gallon in-ground pool. The gear box does not want to advance zones. I have had this happen once before and there seems to be two reasons why it happens:

    1. Pressure too high (not an issue this time around).
    2. Turbulence in the gear box.

    I am seeing number 2 happening at the moment. There is trapped air and turbulence in the gear dome and I believe that is the problem since the gear system is dependent on a steady and smooth flow of water to turn the mini-turbine. But how do you clear trapped air in the gear dome? I had it running over night and the zone is still stuck and not advancing.

    Any advice would be appreciated?

    NOTE: I had the assembly open to check for broken teeth or similar gear problems. It is a relatively new set of gears so everything looks fine. The plastic balls are all in good shape. Nothing cracked, jammed or stuck. Gears spin freely when I spin by hand.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    BTW, this is the manifold I have: http://www.infloorpoolparts.com/5-port- ... 15515.html

    It has acrylic balls.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    It should purge itself unless you have a suction side air leak. Do you see bubbles in the pump basket? If so, find and fix that and your cleaner will work properly.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    No, the pump basket is bubble-free. It was originally stuck on the deep end zone. I opened the dome up and gave it an examination and then spun the gears with my fingers and moved the zone to the shallow end. Put everything back together, and now it is stuck in the shallow end zone. Hmmm . . .
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Of course, now I have an additional problem. Not only is it stuck on one zone, but it is leaking like crazy. How do you know how tight to tighten down the tension clamp? Too tight can cause it to leak, and too loose can cause it to leak.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Okay, solved the leak problem by re-tightening the band clamp a couple of times. But for the life of me I cannot clear the one inch air gap at the top of the dome. (I can clearly see it by shinning a flashlight through plastic.) That is what is causing turbulence and not allowing the gears to spin. I cannot see any indication of a suction-side air leak. No bubbles in the pump basket, either. Anyone have any advise here? Would be greatly appreciated.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Have you tried contacting A&A? They've been very helpful when I've called them in the past. Sorry you aren't getting more help...this is a problem I've never heard of before.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Have you tried unscrewing the pressure gauge and bleeding the air off that way?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    UPDATE: Suction side Jandy Valve has a stripped screw and when I opened it up, a broken off diverter. So you know what I will be doing today. I was hoping to avoid a plumbing job and just replace the head of the Jandy and put some epoxy in the stripped hole and retap. But the easy way is not always the best way.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Hard to Figure Out Air Leak

    Topics Merged. Lets keep this together. It's much easier for peopole to figure out what's already been tried and asked. Bama

    I'm restarting this topic/thread to gain visibility and hopefully get some advice.

    I am consistently getting air in the top of my 6-port A&A QuikClean water valve. There is always about 1 inch of air at the top of the dome, and because of this, it creates turbulence that interferes with proper water flow through the impeller/gear mechanism and as such, the gears won't spin and the zones do not advance. I found that on the suction side, I did have a Jandy valve with a cracked divertor, so I installed a new Jandy and it seems to be water/air tight. I suppose I could do the shaving cream method to check.

    The one inch air pocket in the top of the dome will not purge, even after 8 hours of run time. When I shut the pump off, immediately the water gurgles, the acrylic balls bounce around, and the water drains out of the dome. However . . . the pump basket stays filled. Typically you would expect air bubbles of some kind in the pump basket when there is a suction-side air leak.

    When I put the pump back on, since it hasn't lost prime, it starts right back up, the water flows back into 6-port valve dome, and the everything runs fine. EXCEPT that the top one inch of the dome still has air pocket at the very top and the zones will not advance. You can see the air pocket by shinning a flashlight through the plastic, and you can hear the turbulence.

    I have a sand filter with a "push pull" plunger valve for backwashing. A main drain in the pool and a main drain in the attached spa. The skimmer in the pool and the spa are plumbed through the main drain. There are no wall returns.

    Would photos help? I really don't want to call a service guy out if I don't have to. I'd like to save the money if it is something I can fix myself. This is driving me crazy.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Did you try bleeding the air out of it?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Thanks, Bama. And sorry for breaking the topic into two.

    There is no bleed option on the 6-port valve. This is an older A&A model. I posted a link to a photo further up this thread.

    Bleeding air from the top of the filter does not do anything. I just get water coming from that bleed point.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    I was thinking that there may be a union on top of the unit where you could bleed off the air. What I wanted to see was if it came right back.

    I'd be tempted to drill and tap a bleed valve in the plumbing on top of the unit so you could bleed it off.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Install a bleed valve. Interesting idea but not sure I want to go that route.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    To close the loop on this matter: I had a pool tech come out and he opened up the A&A 6-port top-feed valve and sure enough one the gears had stripped teeth, and the impeller also has stripped teeth. I missed this in my inspection because it still spun by spinning the impeller with my fingers. Found an online source for a new impeller and I already had a spare gear. As for the air turbulence in the top of the dome, he said this most likely wasn't the issue and not to worry about it. Just some weird hydro-dynamics that should not interfere with the action of the gears.

    I did find something that I never knew was part of the unit. A speed control. You can see a video of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPEpelOMRB8
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Well, this problem has come back. I fixed the bad gear and installed a new impeller (the "spinner" piece). It was working fine for a couple of weeks but now, again, stuck on the shallow end stair zone and won't advance. I have opened it up, inspected every gear, all the gear teeth, the acrylic balls. Everything is fine. I spun it with my fingers to a new zone on more than one occasion before reassembling, but it always ends up stuck on that zone, which by the way is the lowest pressure zone of all six zones. Really have no idea what to do next. Definitely frustrating!
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    What is the pressure in that zone and the other zones?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    I suspect that all the other gears are worn out too...maybe not as obvious as the one that was replaced, but worn out nonetheless. I can't think of a single example on the forum where worn out gears were not the issue...
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    The pressure in that zone is around 20 or 22 psi. And the gears are all good. I examined everything very carefully. I've been down this road before.
    15K gal, PebbleTec, 1/2 HP StayRite pump, Hayward S360SX Pro Series 36in. sand filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaning System (generation 1), connected spa.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck Zone (In-Floor Cleaning System)

    Is it possibly a clearance issue inside the housing?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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