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Thread: New Member, borate question

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    New Member, borate question

    Split by moderator from HERE. Please start your own thread for questions and discussion. Thanks, jblizzle

    Hello, thanks for having me! I have learned a ton from this website, and have saved a lot of money at the pool stores as well. Surprisingly none of them have ever heard of BBB method I just got my TA down from about 250 to 100 using the MA and aeration method. My ph however is sitting at 7.3. Using the pool calculator it says to add 36oz of borax to raise the ph. down in the borate box it is telling me to add roughly 8 boxes of borax (go go mule) I had to resist saying it was to clean the blood up
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrod30
    Forget the dumb check-out girl that asked " What do you use that stuff for?" Tell her to clean blood off the floors.
    as well as to add about 2 gallons of MA to offset the ph rise.
    My question is: Is it possible just to use borax and MA combo as directed to get my borate level up to 50ppm? or do I have to raise the ph up first with aeration, then start the borax/ma combo? Also how much MA is too much to add at one time to a 10k gallon plaster pool? dude at the poolstore said only 24oz or so every 4 hours, but that would take forever if adding 2gallons. Thanks for any help in advance.

    FC 3
    TC 3
    CH 250
    CYA 30
    TA 100
    PH 7.3
    TDS 500
    Phos 100
    "It's all in the reflexes"
    -Jack Burton

    14k gal,IG plaster,3/4 hp magnetek pump Polaris 360, quad d.e. 60 filter,pentair 1hp pump , Pentair MT 400 NA heater, anzen residential air pump for spa, last resurfaced in 2016

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: BBB for Beginners

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakburton
    My question is: Is it possible just to use borax and MA combo as directed to get my borate level up to 50ppm? or do I have to raise the ph up first with aeration, then start the borax/ma combo?
    Why are you trying to raise your borate level to 50 ppm? This is an optional addition and many on here do not do it.

    The procedure is detailed here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/so-yo...how-t4921.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: BBB for Beginners

    9. After 48 hours (not sooner please!) test your borates. You should be right around 50 ppm. Now test your pH, if it is above 7.6 add a bit more acid to bring it down to about 7.6. If you pH is below 7.4 you can start aerating to bring it up unless it's below 7.0, then you need to add more borax.

    Is the 50ppm to help stabilize and give the pool that good clean feel and look, or is it just used to raise the ph? If just the ph then I understand that it wouldn't matter what the ppm of the borate is. Am I missing something here? This is my first pool, I moved into the house and the cya was at 150 so I had to drain and start from scratch.
    "It's all in the reflexes"
    -Jack Burton

    14k gal,IG plaster,3/4 hp magnetek pump Polaris 360, quad d.e. 60 filter,pentair 1hp pump , Pentair MT 400 NA heater, anzen residential air pump for spa, last resurfaced in 2016

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    Re: BBB for Beginners

    20 Mule Team Borax can be used for two purposes. It can be used to raise the pH with half the rise in TA compared to pH Up (sodium carbonate) products. It's second use is to increase the borates level in the pool. To do that one adds both Borax and acid or one can add boric acid instead. This use is optional. Some people find it makes the water sparkle more and it is also a mild algaecide. It is certainly not necessary and is extra cost. You should first try operating your pool without it until you get a handle on your pool maintenance. The borates can be useful in saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools for use as an additional pH buffer when the TA is kept low and to help prevent calcium carbonate scaling in the SWG cell (and in The Liquidator for those who use that device).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: New Member, borate question

    Thanks for the advice. So should I just use aeration to get my ph up to a good level 7.5 -7.7ish, or add in borax to raise the ph, and at the same time introduce borax into my pool? I'd really like to get that 50ppm for the look and feel of the pool, along with the added stabilization of ph spikes, and use the straight bbb method. I had already purchased about 8 boxes of team mule and a few extra gallons of MA. Let me know what you think please, and once again thanks to anyone who chimes in, much obliged.
    "It's all in the reflexes"
    -Jack Burton

    14k gal,IG plaster,3/4 hp magnetek pump Polaris 360, quad d.e. 60 filter,pentair 1hp pump , Pentair MT 400 NA heater, anzen residential air pump for spa, last resurfaced in 2016

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Member, borate question

    I am not a fan ... although maybe out of ignorance and/or tired of seeing new members think they are some magic bullet.

    To me the ONLY reason to add borates is if you have lowered your TA and the pH is still rising too fast for your liking. The secondary effects of shiny/silky water seem to be overstated and not noticeable in some cases.

    Since I have added my SWG, the pH is certainly rising faster than I like and I may in fact add them in the future.

    Your TA is still too high to be considering adding the borates. You need to get that lowered first and then add them if you want for whatever reason.

    BTW, The BBB method is really just about understanding your pool’s chemistry and through accurate testing, adding only what the pool NEEDS and not what someone wants to sell you. You do not have to use all 3 Bs ... in fact most members rarely if ever us borax or baking soda.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: New Member, borate question

    Outstanding thanks again brotha , I am just going to keep it simple. Pool is really sparkling clean as is.I'm sure the borax and ma will be put to use. Thanks again

    Edit note: typo in put to use
    "It's all in the reflexes"
    -Jack Burton

    14k gal,IG plaster,3/4 hp magnetek pump Polaris 360, quad d.e. 60 filter,pentair 1hp pump , Pentair MT 400 NA heater, anzen residential air pump for spa, last resurfaced in 2016

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