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Thread: Chemical help

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    Chemical help

    Tired of being ripped off and even worse not having a balanced pool. I just recently joined looking for some help. I am ordering the test kit from here so my test can be more accurate and more frequently since the pool store is an hour away. My pool is 16x32 vinyl liner and goes from 3'-8'. About 20,000 gallons.

    Here are my recent tests and what the pool store recommends:

    TDS - 1400
    CYA - 100
    Tot. Chlorine 0.1 --recently replaced my chlorinator so this has been in the 1.5-2 range the last few tests
    Free Chlorine 0
    ph - 7.2
    Tot. Alkalinity - 94
    Tot. Hardness - 227

    They recommended:

    20.5 lbs of Balance Pak 100
    1 lbs of Lo 'N Slo
    3 bags of burnout

    Seems everytime I go I need something extreme, like 15 pounds of this and 20 pounds of this. Can I add 20 lbs of baking soda? I already have the Lo 'N Slo and burnout.
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    Welcome to TFP.

    Getting a good test kit is going to put farther down the road to a trouble free pool than almost anything you can do.
    It's likely that your CYA is much higher than 100 ppm so get yourself prepared to drain some water.

    I wouldn't do anything other than add some bleach to the pool until you get the test kit.
    Once you have good numbers, you can come up with the best course of action.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Chemical help

    Welcome to the forum.

    What does your water look like?

    How much swim season do you have left (city and state?)

    This whole idea of BBB method involves doing your own testing. None of us trust pool store results. That said, we can always assume they are valid so plan on doing a drain/refill to get your CYA down from what it is.

    Answer the questions above and we'll have some more suggestions on what to do next.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    Welcome to TFP!

    You came to the right place and the right attitude to get off the pool store roller coaster. Glad you found your way here.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    Your story of being tired of the pool store's wallet-emptying merry-go-round is why most of the people here...are here.

    As a temporary fix until you get your test kit, I would add 2 gallons of bleach today and one gallon each day if it's sunny. Your chlorine is low. I don't know why you would increase your pH unless it's in response to the other additions. I would not go back to the pool store unless you need repair parts.

    Where are you located?
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Chemical help

    Thanks for the responses.

    Water is crystal clear and no signs of algae.

    I live in near Fredericksburg, VA (Central Virginia) and the swimming season is just about over. Plan on closing in the next two weeks

    Since I got my Chlorinator fixed my PH/Chlorine test kit (cheap'o kit - add five drops model) shows the chlorine as being ok. Would you still add the bleach? Is bleach working on something other than the chlorine level?

    Also, I have read not to use one kind of bleach or the other....what are your recommendations for bleach?

    Thanks again,
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    The pucks you are adding to the chlorinator add chlorine (FC) and stabilizer (CYA). The FC is consumed, but the CYA builds up. As the CYA gets higher, you need to maintain higher FC levels to prevent algae from starting. See this in Pool School: pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

    Since you continue to use pucks, the CYA keeps going up. If your CYA is currently 100ppm (although likely higher since that is the test max), then the minimum FC you need to maintain (according to the chart) is 7ppm ... your test does not read that high ... thus why you need one of the Recommended Test Kits.

    You need to replace water to get the CYA back to the recommended range of 30-50ppm and then switch to liquid chlorine / bleach ... just the plan old stuff, no scents, thickeners, etc. The bleach ONLY add chlorine with none of the side-effects of the tablets or powdered forms of chlorine.

    Read some of these to start getting an understanding while waiting for you test kit:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    As for chlorine... if you are talking "plain", un-scented, not-thickened, not-outdoor, chlorine (the kind we use here) the biggest differences are price and strength. I normally use the HTH pool chlorine (10%) or the GreatValue "Extra-strength" from Wal_Mart.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Chemical help

    Ok....so I added two gallons of bleach and about 7 lbs. of baking soda. Something I thought was very interesting was the fact that the back of the baking soda bag had instructions (amounts/ppm per gallons of water) for the pool. Never thought......already learning from this site. Thanks for all the replies.

    I ordered my test kit so should have it by Friday and will test rigHt away and post results here.

    Thanks again
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Chemical help

    Btw - the ph was a bit low hence the reason I added the baking soda. From what I understand, having the ph right makes the other test more accurate. Please advise....
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Chemical help

    Baking soda raises TA. Borax raises PH. At 7.2 your PH is in range.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    As Jeff said, baking soda was not a good idea since it mostly raises TA and yours appeared to already be a bit higher than we recommend.

    That 7 lbs raised your TA by 25ppm and your pH by 0.05 ... yes that decimal place is correct.

    You need to read a little more in Pool School before you keep adding various chemicals. Here are the links you ignored in my previous post again:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    After you do some more reading, ask before you just add stuff until your comfortable with what your adding and the effects of what your adding.

    Lots of people here will gladly help you out !!

    The only dumb question is the one not asked !!
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Chemical help

    Sorry...got things confused. Newbie......My Adjusted TA was 64 and the appears the range should be 125-150 so that was the reason for the baking soda but I wanted to adjust slowly and not drop in 20 lbs like the report from the pool store had recommended.

    I added about 1 lb of Lo N Slo (already had it) to bring PH up from 7.2 to 7.5.

    I plan on leaving the pool as is until my test kit arrives and I can get some valid data.

    Thanks again,
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

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    Re: Chemical help

    I plan on leaving the pool as is until my test kit arrives and I can get some valid data.
    Probably the best course.

    Stay out of the pool store. Their advice and ours will not mix and you will end up in the middle confused.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Chemical help

    Thanks Dave. I ordered my kit last night from your site. I plan on doing all my own maintenance now after 5 years of funding the pool store's Lear Jet. I look forward to learning about the process. Thanks again,
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    Good for you rclift. Spend lots of time in the Pool School. Get to know your ABC's.......just like in regular School.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Chemical help

    Ok. Got my test kit and here are the results:

    CYA - >100 (about 2/3 the way up on tube to the 100 mark)
    TA - 110
    Total chlorine - 4.5
    Total hardness - 230
    Ph - 7.1-7.2

    This was my first testing but I did a couple of them twice. I was careful but the more I do the better I will become.
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Chemical help

    Just in case you guys need the chlorine broken down it was:

    FC - 4
    Cc - .5
    16x32 Vinyl Liner
    20,000 gallons
    Hayward Chlorinator 220
    Sand Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Chemical help

    Do the CYA again starting with a 50/50 mix of pool and tap water, then add reagent, then double the result. Test should be done outside with back to sun with tube at your waist. And you can pour the mixture back and forth a few times to see if you are consistent.

    If it is still over 100, pour out half the mixture and fill back up with tap water, mix and then try the reading again, but multiplying by 4.

    Got to get the CYA figured out so you know how much water you need to replace to get back down to 30-50ppm.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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