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Thread: Do I need to replumb?

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    Do I need to replumb?

    Just replaced my Single speed pump with a 2-speed this week, the new pump is working great but on the low speed I'm not getting enough flow for my IntelliChlor IC-40. I think it might be an issue with my plumbing, at the IC-40 and at the pump. As you can see with the photos I have a 90 degree elbow right before the IC-40 and I think on the low speed of the pump it's not enough flow, plus it's running through the heating before that from the filter. I'm wondering if I re-plumbed just before the inlet of the IC-40 a straight piece of pipe 12 inches or more if that would help. Not sure what to do with the plumbing before the inlet of my pump but I don't like double 90 degree elbows at all. Any ideas? Or am I stuck to not being able to use the low speed of my pump with IC-40?

    Thank you
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    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    A single 90 or two isn't going to make much of a difference. It is the entire plumbing that makes the difference.

    What is the full speed filter pressure?

    Can you step back and get a full pad equipment picture?

    What pump did you have before?

    Is all your plumbing 1 1/2"?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    Back off and take a little wider picture of the pad.
    Which model pump do you have now?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    First off thank you for the help. I only replaced the motor not the wet end of the pump, new motor matches the HP of my old pump and works fine running on high. The plumbing looks to be 2" above ground and 2" at the returns (not sure if it's 2 inch under the ground). First return is about 10 feet from the pad, the other return is around 35-40 feet.

    New motor is a Pentair 356630S

    356630S
    1-1/2 HP Motor SQFL, 2 Speed, 1 phase, 60 Hz
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    Did you check the filter pressure on high as Mark asked?

    It's kind of an optical illusion but I think the red handled valve on the pump duscharge that's turned off isn't connected to anything?

    Looks like your heater is the biggest issue. How often do you use it?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    Sorry forgot about the filter pressure between 15-20 PSI new gauge on high, 3-5 PSI on low. We don't use the heater much, would it help to bypass it when not using it? The valve that is off is for vacuum to waste, don't have the waste hose hooked up right now.
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    I think it probably would, but I'd like Mark to chime back in with his assessment.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    What do you mean the pressure is 15-20psi? The needle should not be jumping around.

    If it is clean at 15psi, you should be cleaning it between 18-19psi (a 20-25% rise over the clean pressure).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    I just cleaned out the filters just to make sure, they weren't very dirty (filter pressure steady at 15 PSI). No change low speed is not enough flow for the IC-40.
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

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    tsunami's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    The IC-40 probably needs cleaning. Calcium build up can cause a low flow read.
    40 X 26 Free Form Pool with attached 9 X 7 Spa raised 18" with 8 Jets and Spillover, and an Art Rock Waterfall/Grotto with accent rocks, 26,000 gallons
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  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    I checked the IC-40 it doesn't need cleaning and works fine when the pump is on high speed.
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    I estimate that the pump is producing about 72 GPM on high speed and 36 GPM on low speed which is well above the minimum.

    But a few follow up questions that could make a difference.

    You have two suction lines, how long is each line?

    How high is the pump relative to the water level?

    There might be an issue with the IC internal flow switch.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    The pump is only 1-2 feet above the water level. I'm not at home right now but I would guess each suction line is around 30 feet long, the drain is a dual drain and might be more like 35 feet to the bottom of the pool. I've never used a 2-speed pump before but how much pressure should I expect to see on low? I only see around 3 PSI on my filter pressure gauge. I also don't feel much pressure coming out of the returns but I'm guessing that is normal with the pump on low.
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

  14. Back To Top    #14
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    3 PSI is fairly typical on low speed and not a concern and yes, the return pressure/flow rate is low too. But 35 GPM should be enough to run the IC which makes me think it is a problem with the cell. Have you inspected the cell to make sure there is nothing caught in it?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    I pulled the cell out last night and checked the flow sensor and the plates, everything seems fine. I will double check again tonight, I haven't had any problems with the cell on high speed so I think it's the elbow in the piping just before the cell that's causing the issue. I'm wondering if I increase the surface area of the flow sensor it that will help will the low flow issue. The flow sensor on the IC-40 is just a simple magnet on a flapper that pulls at a reed switch (during flow) to complete the circuit.

    This is not my IC-40, just an example of what the switch looks like.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

  16. Back To Top    #16
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    The elbow before the cell is not really that close so it shouldn't have a big impact. You might try force a hose stream up the switch hole since you really can't see if there is anything in there. Does the flapper move back and forth without any restriction?

    But if that fails, you could glue a larger disk on the switch so it moves more with flow rate. It probably doesn't need much.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    Just wanted to say Thank you to everybody for the help and feedback.

    I pulled out my IC-40 to look at the sensor again and noticed mine had less surface area than the photo I posted above. Mine has half the surface area under the round grey magnet that you see in the photo (it's not as long). So I used some water epoxy to attach a longer piece of metal flapper to switch. So far it seems to work great and the IC-40 still shuts off when it detects no flow (I shut off the filter valve). I'm hoping the water epoxy will stand up to the pressure it's designed for this sort of thing so it should.

    It doesn't look pretty but seems to work great on low speed now. Thanks again!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16,000 gallon, 1 hp 2-speed SuperFlo pump, Intellichlor IC40 Salt Chlorine Generator, Pentair Clean & Clear 240 Filter, Mastertemp 250 Heater, Vera Z-Wave home automation, Intermatic CA3750 for pump control

  18. Back To Top    #18
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need to replumb?

    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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