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Thread: S.O.S.

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    S.O.S.

    Hello, Everyone!

    Yes, I have sent out a distress signal. I must be at the right place because I've been reading about FC, CC, TC, Ph, TA and much more with lots more to learn. Here's my problem: I'm a custodian who cleans a large indoor pool. It's all computerized and has lots of surface problems. Because I'm a workaholic (lol) my supervisor is seriously considering educating me in the chemical care and maintenance of this vast expanse of water. It is big and it is indoors.

    Can this message board assist me with the problems I will be facing or can someone be kind enough to point me in the direction of another message board meant for large, indoor, computerized pools?

    Actually, this board looks very friendly and I'm hoping I fit in.
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    I think you have found the right place. The chemistry is the same regardless of the pool size. There are small differences for indoor pools and there may be other things that factor in if this is a public pool (what are the regulations in your jurisdiction?).

    Likely you will learn more about the chemistry by reading the forum and Pool School than you will from your supervisor. It is not uncommon for most people who deal with pools to not really understand some of this ... like the CYA/FC relationship.

    Once you can provide more information about the equipment, we can start to help you figure things out.

    You are certainly going to want to get one of the Recommended Test Kits ... best option is certainly the TF-100. As then you will have accurate test results to KNOW what is going on in the water.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    This will be a great place to learn, but there will be agency rules and regs that don't agree with some of the things we teach here. Our focus is residential pools, but you can gain a lot of knowledge on pool chemistry and related info.

    Welcome to TFP, and enjoy the forum.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Welcome to TFP!

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Welcome to TFP !
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: S.O.S.

    Thanks for the welcome, Everyone. Here's what I've found out so far:

    The MI Department of Environmental Quality Water Bureau has contracted with the Ingham County Health Department to do our inspections and to receive the monthly water quality sample for analysis. I got online with the DEQ and found it enlightening and lengthy. Who knew? I surfed the web and found that all public pools get a bad rap due to the public in general. Yeah, go ahead and squeeze off a wet one in my pool or wear your darn street shoes onto my deck. EEEEEck!

    I've got a pretty nice test kit though. It's a Taylor K-2005C. It covers everything you have listed and a couple more like Total Bromine, Base Demand (I'll have to check into that further) and next to that kit sets one that is suitcase size, but I didn't have time to get into it. (Football season) And then there is the computer manual...it's at least 5 inches thick. I'm not discouraged and although I found out the size of the pool, I've got lot's more information to collect.

    Like my supervisor, "I'm working on it."
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    You do not have Bromine ... so that is not useful (in fact it is the same test with a different scale). The demand tests can be useful ... or you just use poolcalculator.com.

    BUT, you NEED the FAS-DPD chlorine test. That is the difference between the K-2005 and the K-2006 that we recommend. The kit you have now has the DPD chlorine test, you match a pink shade and try to guess the chlorine level between 0 and 5ppm (which is the max it goes). The FAS-DPD test you count the number of drops until the water turns from pink to clear. It is accurate to 0.2ppm or 0.5ppm and will test up to 50ppm.

    Some more reading for you:
    extended-test-kit-directions-t25081.html
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Thank you, jblizzle. I took a look at the recommended reading and have decided to go into work over the holiday weekend = no pay. But heh, my supervisor has a life and I'm sure he's living it so I guess I'll have to man up (or woman up) and go in on my own. I'll print off the info you've pointed out as recommended reading, check out the suitcase which may have that FAS-DPD chlorine test in it (I want to know what's in it anyway) and while I'm there take a look at all the bells and whistles that keep the pool running.

    Like the pumps. And the filtering system (there are 3 large pigs there). I figure the manufacturer would stamp all info on the equipment so if I can't find the paperwork, I can look it up online.

    And while I'm there, I'll run some tests and report back to you.

    By the by, our "No Fun Governor" has drastically reduced our school budgets and if we don't have the FAS-DPD chlorine test, I'll have to use what we have until it's gone. That gives me time to thoroughly understand the difference between the two testing procedures. I probably won't go to the pool until tomorrow. Is there anything else you can suggest to help me in my exploration of that basement that holds all of the equipment that maintains the running of that pool?

    Remember, I KNOW NOTHING, but I'm gearing up to learn it....all of it. lol
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    You can take pictures of the equipment and post them here. We can help identify anything you can't figure out on your own.
    TFP Moderator
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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Hopefully your state has some sane regulations, some states are better than others, some are down right reasonable, while others are stuck with regulations that date back to the 1950's level of understanding of pool chemistry.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: S.O.S.

    Good idea, zea3. I'll plug in the digital.

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    You can take pictures of the equipment and post them here. We can help identify anything you can't figure out on your own.
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: S.O.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    Hopefully your state has some sane regulations, some states are better than others, some are down right reasonable, while others are stuck with regulations that date back to the 1950's level of understanding of pool chemistry.
    I think our state must be pretty sane because we are operational. I did pull the plastic covers off the deck troughs to see what was in there and to clear the drains. It looked scary to me. Sand, algae, scale, cloth fibers. YIKES! The drains are no bigger around than a silver dollar. I'm sure they must be to code (2001 installation date) but with two down (probably clogged with sand) and no more than 10 operational and the amount of debris found clogging up the drains, no wonder we have overflow onto the deck. Sorry to get side tracked. I'm really worried about it.

    Tell me that getting the chemistry of the pool in check will help clear up a multitude of what I find there and that a deck hose is adequate combat equipment.
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    These are just deck drains right? If they are and just catch splash out or drip from swimmers, the pool chemistry will have little effect on what you see there. You'll just have to try out the hose and see.
    TFP Moderator
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: S.O.S.

    Yep. The troughs are just deck drains. It's the drains themselves that are choked with debris. It's on my weekly to keep track of them so the water can flow freely. I'll have to get a Sharpee so I can mark them off and find them quickly.

    My sister called and announced she was coming over to spend the weekend and I was hurried today. I spent a couple of hours at the pool today. Here are my test results:

    FC: 1.5 ppm
    TC: 3.0 ppm
    CC: 1.5 ppm
    pH: 7.6
    TA: 80 ppm
    CH: 250 ppm
    CYA: 0 ppm

    I think the water looks dull. It sure doesn't sparkle.

    I have to say that walking downstairs and confronting what lay before me was downright intimidating. I brought my camera with me but my hands were shaking so badly, that after the first couple of tries, I just put it down and surveyed the area. There's piping of various sizes that run all over the place. Thankfully, all of it is on the left wall. The direction of water flow is clearly marked and in some instances it tells where the water comes from. (I think)

    Filter Pump # 1 and Filter Pump #2

    Griswold Pumps
    Type: TDN
    Phase-3
    Duty: Continuous
    HP: 20
    SF: 1.15

    Astral Olympic, Horizontal Bobbin Wound Filters (???) (The 3 pigs)

    There is a pool heater, Lochinvar Copper Fin II Proportional Firing, Variable Speed (Honeywell) with it's own motor and another motor tied into the plumbing (?) and then I found the pool drain pump which was red tagged as capable of drowning, disemboweling and/or actually killing you. I walked away. You'll have to excuse me but this is a complete alien landscape to me. I'll have to get use to it and that means the sounds, sights and mysteries of all the piping and water flow plus how each connects to the pumps and motors.

    And I'm looking for the blueprints of the pool so that I have its dimensions. I'll keep testing the pool and reading what you have here. Last night I had to look up impeller. Yeah. I've got a lot to learn.
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by I Know Nothing
    Here are my test results:

    FC: 1.5 ppm
    TC: 3.0 ppm
    CC: 1.5 ppm
    pH: 7.6
    TA: 80 ppm
    CH: 250 ppm
    CYA: 0 ppm

    I think the water looks dull. It sure doesn't sparkle.
    FC+CC=TC In other words, you have 1.5ppm of CC (combined chloramines, the waste by product of chlorine oxidation) When ever you have CC > .5ppm you need to slam the pool. Dull water is another sign that a slam is in your future. You can read more about the slam process in Pool School. pH, TA, and CH look ok. You need to find out if you are allowed to use CYA in a public pool in your area.

    Quote Originally Posted by I Know Nothing
    I have to say that walking downstairs and confronting what lay before me was downright intimidating. I brought my camera with me but my hands were shaking so badly, that after the first couple of tries, I just put it down and surveyed the area. There's piping of various sizes that run all over the place. Thankfully, all of it is on the left wall. The direction of water flow is clearly marked and in some instances it tells where the water comes from. (I think)

    Filter Pump # 1 and Filter Pump #2

    Griswold Pumps
    Type: TDN
    Phase-3
    Duty: Continuous
    HP: 20
    SF: 1.15

    Astral Olympic, Horizontal Bobbin Wound Filters (???) (The 3 pigs)

    There is a pool heater, Lochinvar Copper Fin II Proportional Firing, Variable Speed (Honeywell) with it's own motor and another motor tied into the plumbing (?) and then I found the pool drain pump which was red tagged as capable of drowning, disemboweling and/or actually killing you. I walked away. You'll have to excuse me but this is a complete alien landscape to me. I'll have to get use to it and that means the sounds, sights and mysteries of all the piping and water flow plus how each connects to the pumps and motors.

    And I'm looking for the blueprints of the pool so that I have its dimensions. I'll keep testing the pool and reading what you have here. Last night I had to look up impeller. Yeah. I've got a lot to learn.
    The pool drain pump should be an easy fix. The main drains in the pool probably have old style drain covers that are no longer allowed due to the Virgina Graeme Baker Act. Just about any pool service company should be able to replace the drain cover with one that complies with current regulations.

    The equipment looks a lot more intimidating than it really is, once you know what everything is supposed to do you will feel better about it.
    TFP Moderator
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: S.O.S.

    I don't know how you would handle a SLAM in a "public" pool like that. I suppose you'd have to do it during a weekend or other downtime. I know nothing about the regulations on things like that at all. Sorry.

    Zea3 is right about taking your time and getting to know everything. It will become less intimidating sooner than you think.
    TFP Moderator
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  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: S.O.S.

    Thanks everyone, for your patience. The current pool operator leaves on the 16th of this month and we never see each other. We use to have a terrific maintenance department but that's been downsized too. I'll take my time and go over it again and again.

    We do have an acid vat (1 part acid/3 parts water). It is hand mixed (plenty of safety equipment to use) and the chlorine vat is filled by a subcontractor. What I thought was a five inch manual on the Chemtrol unit is actually much smaller, it's pool regs that 5" thick. lol I need to take a closer look at everything. Gonna slow down. If I have questions, I'll look for the appropriate place on the board to post questions.

    Thanks, everyone!
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: S.O.S.

    I have a Taylor 2005C test kit. As others have mentioned you need the FAS-DPD test kit. It is much more accurate and much easier to use. Fortunately, you can buy just the FAS-DPD test and add it to your 2005C. I bought mine from TFTestkits.net and keep it in my 2005C box. There is no way I'd go back to using anything else.
    16,500 gallon, 18" x 38" Grecian; IG Vinyl, Hayward DE

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Pool pumps

    MOD edit: I merged these posts into your orginal thread so we have the detail. Thanks, moderator linen

    I want to upgrade my signature and put my pumps in. I have 2 Griswold Pumps so it would be listed as 2 SFHP 23, Griswold Pumps? SF 1.15 * HP 20 = 23HP

    I realize filters come first but the pumps are the 1st I encounter in the basement and I can correct my signature later. I have further questions but I can't find the manufacturers stamps with explanation that I found informational that someone had posted. Can someone point me in the right direction, please.

    For instance, what does PH-3 mean?

    And does DUTY-Cont, mean that my pumps never shut down?

    They don't seem to (there's a continuous hum from them) and I'm assuming they would run continuously because of the volume of water in the pool and the amount of usage that the pool gets; continuous movement of water through the filtering system?
    304K gal., IG, 75' x 82' (Shallow End 4', Deep End 9'-13'),Ceramic Tile/Grout, 2 Griswold 20 HP Pumps; SFHP 23, Flow rate on pump 2: 1,229 gpm, I'm currently collecting all the pertinent information when it comes to the pool.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Pool pumps

    Is this a commercial pool?

    Ph-3 means that they're 3 phase motors.
    Duty-cont. means that they can be ran continously without being shut down for some period of time. It doesn't mean that they have to be ran continously.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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