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Thread: Is my TA too high?

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    langerking's Avatar
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    Is my TA too high?

    Back on July 6th my pool would have measured something like this:
    (didn't own a real test kit, that's why I say would have measured)
    FC - 3.0
    CC - 0.5
    pH - 6.8
    TA - 20
    CH - 130
    CYA - 250

    I was still listening to pool stores a few days earlier and they told me to add 33 lbs of Baking Soda. I added (3 lbs at a time over a period of about 4 days) and after adding 25 lbs I saw that my TA was almost 100. That is when I turned to the internet and found this forum. I joined July 12th and today (Aug 24th) I finally feel that my pool chemistry is under control:


    FC = 10 (and falling, just coming out of a SLAM)
    CC = 0
    pH = 7.6
    TA = 110
    CH = 120
    CYA = 38

    The TA is a bit on the high side, wish I hadn't added quite so much Baking Soda.

    Here is what I am thinking, please tell me if I am on the right track!

    I shouldn't tinker with my TA yet, but rather wait and see what my pH will do during the next week or two. If it tends to drift up, then it may need some attention. Would I want to add acid to lower my pH all the way down to 7.2 and aerate? Or would I not need to lower the pH that much? It seems that the adjustment I need, if any, is small.
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by langerking

    Here is what I am thinking, please tell me if I am on the right track!

    I shouldn't tinker with my TA yet, but rather wait and see what my pH will do during the next week or two. If it tends to drift up, then it may need some attention. Would I want to add acid to lower my pH all the way down to 7.2 and aerate? Or would I not need to lower the pH that much? It seems that the adjustment I need, if any, is small.
    I think you're exactly on the right track. 110 is nothing to be concerned about.

    In fact, because your CH is on the low side, you probably shouldn't go much below 7.5
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    +1 on what smykowski said. 110 and 7.6 is no concern.
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smykowski
    In fact, because your CH is on the low side, you probably shouldn't go much below 7.5
    It's a vinyl pool ("4) Vinyl" in the signature) so the saturation index (primarily the combination of pH, TA and CH) doesn't matter if it's low. If the pH is fairly stable, leave the TA alone. If the pH rises too quickly for your taste, then you can consider lowering the TA.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    My bad. I saw inground and assumed plaster. Disregard my statement about CH.

    Thanks for the catch.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Quote Originally Posted by Smykowski
    In fact, because your CH is on the low side, you probably shouldn't go much below 7.5
    It's a vinyl pool ("4) Vinyl" in the signature) so the saturation index (primarily the combination of pH, TA and CH) doesn't matter if it's low. If the pH is fairly stable, leave the TA alone. If the pH rises too quickly for your taste, then you can consider lowering the TA.
    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    Chem geek,
    If I find that I want to lower my TA somewhat, do I take the pH all the way down to 7.2 and aerate to get the TA down? Or maybe only down to 7.4, since I don't have to get the TA down very much.
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    It's more efficient to lower the pH more for the lowering process since carbon dioxide outgasses faster at lower pH. See this chart to see how much extra carbon dioxide there is in the water at various pH and TA levels. So it's really up to you. It's much easier to lower the TA in spas because of the ease in generating lots of aeration from spa jets and the smaller spa volume has a larger surface area to volume ratio (outgassing rate depends on water-air surface area).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    It's more efficient to lower the pH more for the lowering process since carbon dioxide outgasses faster at lower pH. See this chart to see how much extra carbon dioxide there is in the water at various pH and TA levels. So it's really up to you. It's much easier to lower the TA in spas because of the ease in generating lots of aeration from spa jets and the smaller spa volume has a larger surface area to volume ratio (outgassing rate depends on water-air surface area).
    Ok, well I am not a chemistry scholar so that chart is pretty overwhelming.

    Let me rephrase my question: if I were to put muriatic acid in my pool lowering the pH to 7.2 and then start aerating, there is no likelihood of getting my TA lower than I want? Say I was targeting the 80-90 range, I wouldn't end up going to a TA of 60 and now needing to add Baking Soda again?
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    You need 45oz. of 31.45% MA to lower pH to 7.2, which will drop your TA by about 8. So no....no chance of overshooting.

    In your case though, I wouldn't proactively lower TA. Just keep pH in range, and TA will naturally settle where it wants to be.

    As an example, I have a TA of 100, and I haven't put MA in my pool at all this year. pH is rock stable between 7.2 and 7.4

    Let the pool find it's happy place.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smykowski
    You need 45oz. of 31.45% MA to lower pH to 7.2, which will drop your TA by about 8. So no....no chance of overshooting.

    In your case though, I wouldn't proactively lower TA. Just keep pH in range, and TA will naturally settle where it wants to be.

    As an example, I have a TA of 100, and I haven't put MA in my pool at all this year. pH is rock stable between 7.2 and 7.4

    Let the pool find it's happy place.
    Great, thanks!!
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    + 1 ^. My TA is 80 and my PH is also in the 7.2-7.4 range. It drifts up when the pool is getting alot of use, then it will drift back down to 7.2. It's on the low end of the range but in range. I guess that's where it likes to be. I've never had to use MA. Its not broke so I don't fix it !

    I wouldn't sweat a TA of 110.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Would appreciate feedback on this again. The pool water looks and feels great, the FC is quite stable, losing only 1 or 2 ppm a day, I am only having to add 30 to 40 oz of bleach to get back to my target of 5.

    But the pH and TA have drifted up a bit: pH from 7.6 to 7.7 and TA from 110 to 120. Should I act now and only have to make a small adjustment, or better to wait and see where things go? This is strange for me because back in the day when I used pucks I was drifting heavily towards acidic and couldn't keep enough pH -up and Alkalinity -up in my cabinet.

    FC = 4
    CC = 0
    pH = 7.7
    TA = 120
    CH = 120
    CYA = 35
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
    STA-RITE Great White GW9500

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    How fast did it raise from 7.6 to 7.7 ?
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    This is all normal, and expected after going away from pucks. Generally speaking, as long as you keep pH where it should be, TA will follow, and the pH drift will slow down. How big of a pH change you make at a time is up to you.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    If the pH is steadily but slowly drifting up, I'd lower it back to about 7.2 whenever it gets to 7.8 or so until your TA gets to about 70 or 80 see what happens then.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk
    How fast did it raise from 7.6 to 7.7 ?
    about 4-5 days.
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Like Bama said, let it get to 7.8 and lower it. Your PH might want a lower TA. Won't hurt to try.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Thanks again, everyone!
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
    STA-RITE Great White GW9500

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    langerking's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    If the pH is steadily but slowly drifting up, I'd lower it back to about 7.2 whenever it gets to 7.8 or so until your TA gets to about 70 or 80 see what happens then.
    So the drift continued and my pH was very close to 8.0 yesterday morning. I hit it with 61 oz of MA and the pH registered 7.2, while the TA came down to 90. Then I started aerating and just a few minutes ago I measure and my pH has climed to 7.5 but the TA has also gone up. After 10 drops the solution was grayish, the 11th drop made it go pink so I'm gonna call it 105. This has unfolded in just over 24 hours (maybe 26-27). I am going to stop the aeration for now and see where things end up.
    1) 21,000 gallons
    2) DE
    3) IG (in ground)
    4) Vinyl
    5) Hayward 1.5 hp DE 3600 72 GPM

    Taylor K-2006
    STA-RITE Great White GW9500

  20. Back To Top    #20
    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Is my TA too high?

    When your doing your TA test are you wiping the tip of the bottle with a damp cloth before you start and after each drop to remove static electricity ?
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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