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Thread: Sand/dirt in pool

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    Sand/dirt in pool

    OK, new pool owner (3 months). Inground, vinyl 19k gallons or so, Hayward s244t Sand Filter/Hayward 1 1/2 Super Pump. First two months water was great, the last month or so not so good.

    The problem is I keep getting sand/dirt in the pool in line with where the returns are pointed. For the last few weeks water has been very cloudy. I added DH to the filter 5 times a few days ago and it cleared the water up perfectly. It looks great. The problem I'm having is as soon as I quit the DH the dirt starts collecting at the bottom of the pool with in a hour or so. Like I said I did the DH 5x the other day and that took about 9 hours and no dirt developed during that whole time.

    I changed the sand 2 weeks ago hoping that would solve the problem but it didn't. One thing about changing the sand is in the manual it says add 300 ponds, which I did. It also says sand should be within 6 inches of the top. After adding the 300 pounds it was no where near the top, maybe 16 inches off the top. The old sand was the same way though, not 6 inches from the top.

    While I had the sand out I removed the lateral and examined it for breaks or cracks, it all looked good to me.

    So, any solutions?

    I thought about adding another bag of sand hoping that would help the filter catch some of this stuff but I don't know.

    Thanks

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Have you absolutely identified it as sand/dirt? It should be quite gritty when you place it between your thumb and finger.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    I don't think it's dirt/sand. It looks like it but it clouds up when brushed away and you cannot pick it up. Whatever it is it gets caught by the filter with DH in.

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    What is DH? Are you talking about Diatomaceous Earth or is this something else?
    "The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese." ~ W. Rian Adams
    .
    Relative's IG Vinyl | 16x32 | ~18,600 gals | Hayward 3/4hp Pump | Hayward S244T Filter | Pentair Model 300 Chlorinator (not used) | Polaris 180

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    My best guess is that your issue is not filter related at all, but a lack of chlorine in your pool and you are seeing dead algae accumulate as a result. Would you please post a complete set of test results?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Yes, sorry DE.

    I will test tonight or tomorrow and post back.

    Thanks

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Thanks for the clarification. I have the same filter and sometimes have the same "problem". I havn't broken the filter down yet as it would require more plumbing than I want to get into right now, but given your results I may put it off even longer. Also havn't did the DE yet but intend to, eventually .

    So far I've been having adequate results by just using the knee-high hose as a skmmer sock which catches any sand and larger particles when I vacuum. Anything small enough to get past that and the filter and settle again will get vacuumed to waste after the next rain.

    I've been thinking for a while now that this problem was due to either the sand being channeled or needing a deep cleaning with the water hose, or perhaps a problem with the laterals. Looks like you've eliminated those possibilities. Maybe time to start looking at the spider gasket?
    "The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese." ~ W. Rian Adams
    .
    Relative's IG Vinyl | 16x32 | ~18,600 gals | Hayward 3/4hp Pump | Hayward S244T Filter | Pentair Model 300 Chlorinator (not used) | Polaris 180

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Maybe time to start looking at the spider gasket?
    Reports over the years here on the forum suggest this issue is far more often a chemistry issue than a filtration issue.

    Folks think the debris they see is coming from their returns when, in fact, it is created within the pool as SOME of the algae is killed. Inadequate chlorine doesn't kill all of the algae so the pattern repeats itself daily.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Welcome to the forum

    Please post a full set of test results and tell us how you got them (pool store? kit?-which one?, etc)

    How have you been chlorinating the pool?

    It will help responders if you add your pool and equipment specs to your sig. Use the User Control Panel button, upper left, under the TFP logo.

    About the sand - we almost never recommend to change sand. It will usually only be changed when the filter dies & gets replaced, which should be years and years. That being said, what type sand did you use for replacement?
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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    ok, test results from Leslie Pool Store.

    FAC - 5
    TAC - 5
    TA - 110
    PH - 7.6
    CYA - 40

    I have the skimmer socks on the skimmer basket, which has not helped.

    I have been chlorinating by a floatable chlorinator. Up until a few weeks ago I was just putting tablets in the skimmer but read here that was bad if I wasn't running pump 24/7. I run the pump about 12 hours on average a day.

    As far as what type sand. I got it as Leslie Pool Store. It was the correct type of sand per my filter manual.

    I could be wrong but I am almost certain that this problem only occurs while the pump is running. Over night if I have the pool perfect and have the pump off there is no brown. I just don't know what to try next.

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    There is nothing in your test results that would indicate a problem (aside from the fact that you don't do your own testing) so I think the thing to do is find out for sure if it is coming from your returns.

    See if you can devise a way to attach a sock or something like it to one of your returns...it doesn't need to be perfectly watertight. If the debris is coming from your returns, the sock should catch most of it. Let us know how that goes.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    ok, I vacuumed all the brown to waste today, first time I"ve vacummed to waste, I usually just vacuum it back into the filter.

    Next I put socks on the return. So running the pump all day (11 hours) there is no brown on the pool bottom. There is, however, brown/yellow on the socks from the return.

    Any ideas?

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    I'll have to defer to the experts here, but with you seeing yellow in the socks I'm wondering if it could be Mustard Algae. Other than that or pollen I can't think of anything else that would be yellow. If thats the case there is a special procedure required to be rid of it. I'm very interested in how this turns out because if it does end up being Mustard Algae then perhaps I havn't been maintaining "my" pool as well as I thought.
    "The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese." ~ W. Rian Adams
    .
    Relative's IG Vinyl | 16x32 | ~18,600 gals | Hayward 3/4hp Pump | Hayward S244T Filter | Pentair Model 300 Chlorinator (not used) | Polaris 180

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Any ideas?
    Sure. Now that you have identified the source, it's time to identify why it is coming from there.

    Now, start with the multi-port by disassembling and inspecting the spider gasket, selection lever, etc.

    If the multi-port checks out OK, then you will need to disassemble the filter and determine why it is allowing dirt to pass back into the pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    So what happened I wonder. I have the same problem with the exact same filter. It seems to have started about a month ago. Though in my case its only when my two speed pump is on high. I can vacuum on low and I dont see anything coming from the returns. Once, I switch it to high, then its a thick dark stream coming out of the all the returns. Real frustrating. Pool is clear. Test results (my own) are normal.

    I have not inspected my sand. Plan to do it this weekend. but am not sure what I am looking for. Even with the multi-port valve - when inspecting is it obvious if something is wrong.

    Its definitely not sand. Its far too fine for that.
    Inground Concrete/Plaster Diving Pool, 17X30 ft, 20k gallons, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 5 returns,
    1 HP (SF 1.25) STARITE SINGLE SPEED, 2-Speed, 1 HP Pentair Superflo (not yet installed!) Hayward Sandfilter 3.14 ft.ft

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    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    I can't find a problem. Multi port looked fine, laterals assembly not cracked at all.

    The socks on the returns have pretty much eliminated the brown on the bottom. I still get a little down there but it slows it down by about 90%. It's not a permanent fix of course. I'd love to take the socks off the return but I can't figure out the problem.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Is it possible your pump is oversized and pushing too much GPM through your filter? Do you get the same result regardless of the speed of your pump?

    Also, what kind of socks are you using on the returns and how do you attach them. I want to try the same thing in my pool. For me the pool remains clean if I keep the pump on low speed. When I switch it to high speed, I can see the debris flowing in. I would just let it be but I fear the problem might be getting worse and soon will affect my low speed pumping as well.
    Inground Concrete/Plaster Diving Pool, 17X30 ft, 20k gallons, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 5 returns,
    1 HP (SF 1.25) STARITE SINGLE SPEED, 2-Speed, 1 HP Pentair Superflo (not yet installed!) Hayward Sandfilter 3.14 ft.ft

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    I have a 1 1/2 HP pump. It only has one speed. We just moved into the house in June. The first month and a half the problem didn't occur. It's only been in the last 4 weeks or so that this has been happening.

    As far as socks, I've just been using a small pair of my daughters regular white socks. I attach them by unscrewing the return jet eye a little and tucking the end under the lip as I screw the eye back in. I also put a rubberband on there after I've screwed down the eye, just in case.

    I can't actually see the debris flowing in but the first place it gathers is right in line where the returns are pointed.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Sand/dirt in pool

    Thanks for that. Will be trying it today.

    I was wondering if you have the same problem after backwashing? Is it less? That would surely indicate that it is a pump/filter issue and not a chemistry issue.
    If you start after vacuuming, so your pool is clean. Then backwash and rinse. and then observe the socks and try to estimate if they get dirty slower or faster than usual.

    I find (and I probably will ruffle a few feathers) that on this board people are quick to suggest that any problem is due to water chemistry and then plug for test kits that the site owner happens to sell.
    Inground Concrete/Plaster Diving Pool, 17X30 ft, 20k gallons, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 5 returns,
    1 HP (SF 1.25) STARITE SINGLE SPEED, 2-Speed, 1 HP Pentair Superflo (not yet installed!) Hayward Sandfilter 3.14 ft.ft

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