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Thread: {SOLVED} CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

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    {SOLVED} CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    New to forum. Saw a recent post similar to my situation but without the CYA issue.
    "Just bought a home, had an above ground pool with it."

    Water was clear, just some leaves and pine needles in the center. Quickly cleaned up with leaf vacuum.
    Pressure was about 14 so i went ahead and backwashed and rinsed the filter. Dropped to about 10.
    Left me a bucket of Super HTH 3" tabs, A&H Free & Clear Tabs, some ph decreaser, HTH Shock n Swim 1lb bags, and an HTH 6 in 1 test kit.
    Haven't really had time to baby it with all the moving and unpacking, until now.
    Was maintaining with shock, vacuum, sweep, and tabs. pH stayed around 7.0 -7.2, Chlorine .5 to 2 mostly.
    1 tab of HTH in a floater, 1 A&H in the skimmer as needed. Shocked it 4 times in 3 weeks.
    Last week I noticed some green spots on the bottom, so i shocked it, swept and vacuumed. Had a small piece of HTH left in floater so I added another.
    2 days later it's green again. I swept, vacuumed and shocked it again. Next morning took a sample to the pool store.
    We've had over a week of no rain and 90+ temps. Pool only gets about 5 hours of sun daily. 82 to 84 water temp.
    Get lots of pine needles and oak leaves falling in it, it's a constant battle.
    That's a little background of how I got to where I am today.

    So my first analysis:
    FC - .23
    TC - .46
    CC - .23
    pH - 6.7
    TA - 39
    CH - 148
    CYA - 144
    SI - -1.7

    So added 24 lbs of Alkalinity Increaser in 3 6hr intervals of 8lbs
    Then 10lbs of Hardness increaser in 2 6hr intervals.
    (In the meantime I had found this forum and was researching the BBB method.)
    Tested myself with HTH kit 4 hours after 1st dose of Hardness Increaser yesterday.
    TC - 0.5 -1 (probably 0.5)
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 180
    CH - 240
    CYA 100+

    Back to pool store this morning:
    FC - 0
    TC - 0
    CC - 0
    pH - 7.3
    TA 110 Adjusted 60 (??)
    CH - 173
    CYA - 150
    SI - -0.4

    Recommending I drain 1/3 of the pool and refill. Spin a day or 2 and bring sample back.
    Got about an inch of rain today so that may have helped dilute just a little.

    I'm thinking the best thing to do here is drain about 1/2, refill, retest, and start BBB method.
    I have seen the Chlorine/CYA chart. Have the Pool Calculator app on my phone, website bookmarked.
    Test kit will be ordered tonight. Got a couple gallons of DG 8.25% Bleach (I'll need more), a Box of 20Mt Borax, and will grab some Baking soda tonight.

    So, my question is: Am I on the right track here?
    Any advice will be appreciated.

    BTW: Nice place here! Lots of good info. Glad to be aboard.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Sounds like you are on the right track. Hard to recommend replacing water until you test the CYA for yourself, but if you are pretty confident it is high based on use of a lot of trichlor and dichlor, then it would not hurt to get started.

    Note the you may not need borax or baking soda ... I have never used either in my pool. The BBB method is not about certain products. It is really just about understanding your pool’s chemistry and through accurate testing, adding only what the pool NEEDS and not what someone wants to sell you.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    My concern is will I be able to maintain that chlorine level effectively with a very high CYA.
    It's off the chart.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Oh ... you NEED to replace water if the CYA is truly that high. But pool stores are notoriously bad at testing, especially the CYA. So, when your kit arrives (I recommend the TF-100), confirm the CYA and then replace enough water to get into the recommended range.

    I was simply not committing to telling you to replace water solely based on the pool store results.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    That's the one I'm ordering.
    I had also checked it myself with that HTH 6 in 1 kit which only goes to 100 and it was higher than that.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Ok... Lets look at this. We recommend a CYA in the 30-50 range. IMHO 100cYA is the absolute limit. If anyone is 100+, drain and fill.

    You tested twice at pool store and got 100 then 150 and they recommended 1/3 drain? To get you down...down to 100CYA? Why? So they can sell you more CYA stabilized pucks and PhosBucks?

    Sound like you need a serious drain and fill AND a test kit you can trust, the TF100 AND stop going to the pool store. Walmart and every other box store has all you need.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    The HTH is a reliable CYA test, so while waiting for the TF-100, it sounds like starting to replace water would be a good idea. Maybe replace 50% and retest with the HTH to see if you should replace more.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    techguy, they were trying to get me down to around 70 1st test was 144 not 100. My HTH kit only goes to 100.
    I'll drain 50% or more and retest it. That'll take a couple days. Have to start late and fill overnight. No bottom drain.
    Pool is 9 years old and supposedly never drained. Pump & filter were changed 3 years ago. Most likely always pucks and shock.

    I'm getting POOL SCHOOLED!

    I had an 18' round above ground about 10 years ago. Started with Baquacil for 2 years, the switched to Pristine Blue for 2 more years until one of the neighborhood kids cut the liner good with his toenail.
    Never had a chance with 2 teen-agers at home and all their friends. Always adding water, cleaning grass out of it. Wasn't any fun for me. Took it down, let BIL have it.
    I wouldn't recommend those chemicals to anyone BTW. They work fine if you don't use the pool.

    Wasn't looking for a pool, but I'll give this a go.

    Thanks.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    If you are not using a SWG (salt water generator) aim for a 50 CYA or lower. Once you get your pool balanced with liquid chlorine, you will find, with daily feeding/testing, the BBB methods truly makes for an easy, trouble free pool.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Test kit won't be here until tomorrow. I drained about 50%, refilled and had the help of Mother Nature with almost 2" of rain. It's to the brim
    Optimistic CYA will be 70 or less. I put about a gallon and a half of bleach in it going by the calculator until I can get a good analysis.
    I'll check it with the HTH kit in the morning. UPS usually delivers in the afternoon here.

    Glad I found this forum. Liking what I'm reading here more and more. I've been a Lab technician most of my working career. BBB method just seems to make good sense.
    Now, can I follow procedure and practice that good sense?? We're about to find out.

    No SWG techguy, I need to upgrade my signature. The liner on this pool might have a couple years left, hopefully more. I'll have to make a decision then.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    And Awayyyy we go!

    FC - 3 ppm
    CC - 0.5 ppm
    TC - 3.5 ppm
    TA - 280 ppm
    CH - 340 ppm
    CYA - 90 ppm
    pH - 7.7
    CSI - 0.04

    CYA not as I hoped but getting there. This is after 12 hours of filtering.
    Going add 1.3 gal of bleach and I'll test it again in the morning.
    Scratching head over CH & TA, calcs look good, might re-test those.
    Water is crystal clear.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Your CYA is still trouble. Replace half the water to get to 45 ppm. CYA stays with the pool, it can only be lowered via water replacement. The most important part of troublefree is the CYA/FC relationship.

    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

    Get the CYA under control and you'll likely have to SLAM for a few days. I know it sounds drastic for now, but what we teach is rock-solid-will-not-fail-success
    18x36 inground vinyl lined, Hayward sand filter and tablet chrolinator, approx 18k gallon

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Quote Originally Posted by beameup
    And Awayyyy we go!

    FC - 3 ppm
    CC - 0.5 ppm
    TC - 3.5 ppm
    TA - 280 ppm
    CH - 340 ppm
    CYA - 90 ppm
    pH - 7.7
    CSI - 0.04

    CYA not as I hoped but getting there. This is after 12 hours of filtering.
    Going add 1.3 gal of bleach and I'll test it again in the morning.
    Scratching head over CH & TA, calcs look good, might re-test those.
    Water is crystal clear.
    The CYA is going to be a problem if it's still that high. I'd retest and seriously consider another water change. You might check your fill water for TA and CH and see if it is coming from there. That will give you a baseline of what to expect when you add water.

    I did two partial changes to get my CYA down to 60. It did fix my TA and CH problem along the way as well.
    16,500 gallon, 18" x 38" Grecian; IG Vinyl, Hayward DE

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    I am going to bring up another question, that may relate to your current strategy. What do you plan to do with the pool over the winter? Cover and continue operating, continue to operate uncovered, formally close the pool and cover, or just turn of filters and abandon leaving major clean up for the spring? I ask because if you plan to just abandon it over the winter (covered or not), then the smart move right now may be a bandaid fix of the type we don't normally suggest, since there is only likely another 4-6 weeks in the swim season this year in our region for an unheated pool.

    Ike

    p.s. I don't normally suggest abandoning pools over the winter in our region, but a lot of people do it, my preferred choice is continue limited normal operation all winter, it may be a little more total work/cost, but you are trading maybe 5 minutes 3 or 4 times per week adjusting chlorine level, cleaning filters, etc. vs multiple days of intense work cleaning up a swamp in the spring.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    i second the "What are you going?" idea. If you water is clear enough to see the floor and you only have a month left of swimming. call it good enough, add some extra liquid chlorine, filter over winter and fix the CYA then. it is possible that the CYA will disappear over winter (it happens occasionally). Otherwise, filter enough to keep it clear, add some algaecide and limp till spring.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    I'll go ahead and drain halfway again. Water is $2 for every thousand gallons over 3000. Don't have a well.
    So worse case scenario would be $30 more on the water bill.

    We're contemplating about going ahead and changing the liner out right now.
    Looks like a small drip on the impeller shaft seal, might deal with that too, and change the sand in the filter.

    Going to sleep on that. That all costs $$ we weren't ready to spend, but may be the best thing for the long term.

    Limp until Spring? Yea that might be a better idea.

    I planned on covering it and maintaining over the winter. They didn't leave a cover, don't know how it was handled in the past.
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    I would say to replace you liner In the spring when you can have a nice warm day to help install that new liner. A sunny day over 80 should be good.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    You probably don't need to change the sand in the filter. A good deep cleaning will re-seat the sand and remove any clumps or channeling.

    To deep clean you remove the top of the filter and gently insert a running water hose down into the sand bed, taking care to avoid the laterals and allow the water to flush out any gunk. Pull the hose out and repeat in another area until you have covered the entire sand bed.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Like zea3 said, sand should not need changing, this is another of those pool store myths, the sand you are using in your filter was likely rubbing around on a beach for millions of years before you bought it, a few years of extra agitation in a pool filter is not going to wear it down that much more, likely it is just dirty. I too would tend to say to hold off on much of the maintenance until spring, or at least as long as you can. The impeller shaft should be a fairly cheap and easy fix that you can do any time.

    Ike

    p.s. I would also watch the weather forecast before doing another big drain and refill, as the pool may be slow to warm back up if we have cooler than normal nights, and cloudy days.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: CYA very high! Just go ahead and drain 50%?

    Yes, Thanks! Going to wait until Spring!
    Good to know about the sand. I'll leave it alone for now.
    Water temp has only been to 86 once since I've been here. Doesn't get sun all day.
    Tightened the bolts on the impeller housing, seems to have stopped leaking.
    Filter was leaning, (ground slopes a little) I leveled it off. Seems to be quieter.
    Drained 2' of water out today. Refilled.
    Just tested after 5 hours of filtering, and 1 bottle of bleach. Water temp 82 degrees.
    pH - 7.7
    FC - 11.5
    CC - 1
    TC - 12.5
    TA - 200
    CH - 190
    CYA - 50 !!!!!
    24' Round, Above Ground, 13,600 gal, Vinyl Liner,
    Pentair SandDollar SD40 40GPM Sand Filter, Dynamo 1.5 HP Pump.

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