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Thread: Pool Constantly Cloudy

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    Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Hello all! and yes I am not only a newbie to the forum, but also a newbie to pools.

    I am leaning on advice here as I have spoken to several "pool guys" along with my local pool supply company but can't seem to be getting our pool crystal clear.

    Our pool chemical tests show that our pool is near perfect, but I just can't seem to get it crystal clear like it was when we first moved in.

    Here is what I have:

    1) 15,000 gallon pool
    2) Spa attached
    3) In ground pop ups (4 in spa, 13 in pool)
    4) 2 horse power pump
    5) Hayward sand filter s244s
    6) Hayward H-Series heater
    7) Water Feature (basically water fall from the spa to the pool)
    8) quick skim

    I currently have the valves set to pull from the leaf skimmer and the pool skimmer only from the pool, pulling that water through the pump/filter, running through the heater (a pool guy said to do that to help for the life of the heater), I have the water feature turned on as I assume running clean water into the spa and back into the pool isn't a bad thing, and then the rest of the filtered water is going through the quick skim and the in ground pop ups.

    As stated I have the PH and Chlorine tested at the local shop, along with algae, and they state they are perfect.

    Things I have done:

    Because I wasn't aware of when the sand filter was changed last, I scooped out all the old and replaced it with 300 pounds of new sand (this was a few weeks ago). It was running at nearly 30PSI, but many pool guys stated that because of my set up that that is normal. After changing the sand, I have seen it drop to 20PSI so I assume that helped some. I have also ran Clearex 500 through the skimmer as directed, over the course of a month... without any real improvement.

    I have backwashed several times... even back to back meaning 24 hours apart.

    I did backwash last night and the pool was slightly clearer this morning.

    I am running my pump 24/7.

    Any who... really kinda at a loss here and am looking for any advice... please feel free to ask me any additional questions... and thanks in advance for any advice you can share
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Welcome to tfp, sunlovinazpoolguy

    Quote Originally Posted by sunlovinazpoolguy
    As stated I have the PH and Chlorine tested at the local shop, along with algae, and they state they are perfect.
    We hear that story here at tfp over and over. The first thing you can that will benefit you the most is to get an appropriate test kit. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...kit_comparison Many of us have the tf-100 since it is the best value.

    The solution to your problems starts with reliable test results.

    To clear your water, you most likely will need to do the SLAM process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool To do this you will need to know accurately your cyanuric acid (cya) level which is a test included in the kits mentioned above.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunlovinazpoolguy
    I have backwashed several times... even back to back meaning 24 hours apart.

    I did backwash last night and the pool was slightly clearer this morning.
    We recommend backwashing whenever the clean pressure goes up 25%
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    thanks @linen for the quick reply.

    So our CYA levels are at 110 and the Phosphate level was at 2000

    Our local Leslie Pool supply suggested that the cloudy is caused by old algae and that our sand filter can't filter that out.

    They suggested we use a product called "pool first aid", and then follow that up with a regular treatment of "pool perfect phosfree".

    I was curious your thoughts on their suggestion?
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by sunlovinazpoolguy
    I was curious your thoughts on their suggestion?
    Number one I would stop following the pool store advice. Phosphates do not matter in a properly chlorinated swimming pool other than not using them makes the pool store less money. A cya of 110 is a problem since the levels of chlorine needed to maintain ( and not clear ) your pool will be much higher. Have you read this pool school article?: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ater_chemistry No need for the pool first aid either.

    Secondly, I would get your own test kit like mentioned above. I can't stress this enough...your own experience with the pool store saying "they are perfect" which at least cya is not.

    Third, upon receiving your test kit, I would retest cya in case the pool store got it wrong ( they probably did, and it might be much higher..or maybe lower, though that is not likely). If it truly is high then a partial drain/refill is in order.

    Fourth, I would initiate the SLAM process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool Knowing all of your test results accuratly and doing the process will clear your water up and keep it that way going forward.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Thanks again @linen... and why I posted the results and experience so far... I will do just that, get the kit and test for myself the CYA levels.

    Just to be clear if you don't mind... you are suggesting I do the following and in this order.

    1) Stop listening to pool store people that are just trying to sell me gimmicky items
    2) Get the proper Test Kit
    3) Retest CYA levels and post them here for your expert advice
    4) Potentially do a partial drain/refill (which I imagine is backwashing 1/3-1/2 of the pool water, and refilling it)
    5) Follow the SLAM process and post my results here for your expert advice

    Seriously though... I really appreciate your help.
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    As opposed to addressing the reason you have cloudy water (partially oxidized algae) the pool sore is addressing the phosphates that don't matter in a balanced pool.

    If you stop listening to the store, buy a test kit as recommended, and SLAM your pool when you get your kit; I can almost guarantee you will spend less this season on chemicals (bleach mainly) than most people spend in one trip to Leslies.... oh yeah... and have perfectly clear water where you can see the face of a coin on the bottom of your pool.

    Just saw your post... you got it!
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Yep you got it

    If you haven't already, make sure you spend some time poking around in pool school (link is always near the upper right).
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Hey @linen... so I got the Taylor kit... ouch expensive... teh CYA is showing extremely high (see attached image is where I stopped seeing the black dot).

    You mentioned that I should do a partial drain... I was curious two things here:

    1) How much of the pool should I drain?
    2) And is it okay to drain using the backwash on my sand filter?

    Thanks in advance!

    [attachment=0:l0vvpjbj]Screen Shot 2013-08-09 at 5.48.31 PM.png[/attachment:l0vvpjbj]
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Since you cya looks very high do this: repeat the cya test but this time mix 1/2 pool water with 1/2 cya free water (tap water is fine for this) and repeat the test. Then multiply the new result by 2 and post your results.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Looks like a little over 50... so 102-105 range...

    As an update, I got home after running the filter all day and the water is much clearer... not crystal where I would expect it to be, but much clearer (as in I can make out the pop up cleaners at the bottom.

    [attachment=0:19t0mqxs]Screen Shot 2013-08-09 at 6.20.22 PM.png[/attachment:19t0mqxs]
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Good not as bad as I was expecting. So your cya level is ~100 ppm. So a 50% drain/refill is in order. I am assuming since you are from arizona that having a high ground water is not an issue? And I am assuming you have a plaster/gunnite style pool?

    I would just use the waste setting on your filter, that should totally bypass the filter media.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Not sure about the high ground water, I'll just use the backwash hose and run it in the street... and yes it's a plaster pool... I updated my sig to reflect. Thanks a ton for all your help so far.
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Quote Originally Posted by sunlovinazpoolguy
    Not sure about the high ground water, I'll just use the backwash hose and run it in the street... and yes it's a plaster pool... I updated my sig to reflect. Thanks a ton for all your help so far.
    I just mention it because if you have high ground water (which is unlikely at your locale) then you run the risk of floating your pool out of the ground. Also, in hot climates like yours, it generally is not good to leave a plaster pool empty/partially empty for long.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    In thePhoenix area, reverse osmosis is another option of your fill water is expensive or had too many minerals. If your water is cost effective and clean, then a dump and fill is fine...and fast.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    thanks @techguy, yeah it seems to be pretty inexpensive considering here in PHX... do I need to turn off the water so the pool doesn't continue to fill itself up during this process... I do know there is a automatic water filler on the pool is why I ask
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    Hey @linen... So prior to draining the pool, I noticed after reading the SLAM page several times that I will need to check my FC level using the FAS-DPD you suggested I purchase. However I am only use to checking using the basic Taylor tester... I was curious if you wouldn't mind sharing where to fill the water and how much of each things I should use to test to see exactly where my FC levels are using that FAS-DPD tester?

    That way I feel much more comfortable moving forward... thx
    10000 Gallon Inground Plaster Pool with attached Spa, 2 Horse Pump, Hayward s244S Sand Filter, Hayward H250FD Heater, Quick Skim, Water Feature (waterfall from Spa to Pool), In-ground Pop-up Cleaning System (4 in spa, 13 in pool)

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    Re: Pool Constantly Cloudy

    The instructions that came with your test kit should guide you through the FAS-DPD test. First make sure that you have the Taylor K-2006 or K-2006C test kit. These are the kits that include the FAS-DPD test. If you have one of these kits, look at the instructions for the "Chlorine (Free, Combined)" test. This is what the instructions call the FAS-DPD test in these kits.

    Use 10mL of water from the pool for the test; the 25 mL test will use more chemicals and you don't need the extra accuracy you get by doing this.

    There are videos on how to use the kit, including the chlorine test, here: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/produ ... deshow.asp. Choose Pool/Spa on the left, and then scroll down to the K-2006 videos.
    Outdoor 14,000 gallon IG plaster pool built in 2000 with spillover spa, 2 hp WhisperFlo pump with MagneTek motor, Sta-Rite cartridge pool filter with 300 ft2 filtration area and 0.33 gpm/ft2 filtration rate, Aquabot Rapids 4WD robotic pool cleaner, Raypak digital gas heater, and Intermatic mechanical timer located in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex

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