Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this week

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Bassottina

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Aug 3, 2013
44
Houston
Hello to all! I've been avidly reading and learning from TFP over the past two weeks in anticipation of taking over pool care from a pool service we've had for the past three years since moving into a house with a pool in June 2010. Like many of you whose posts I've been reading, I've never had a pool before moving into this house, and, until this week, I've never taken care of one. When we moved into the house three years ago, it was never our intention to keep a pool service for so long, but life happens. Now, in an effort to reduce costs in our monthly budget, we decided to cancel the service and do it ourselves. Knowing this was going to happen starting this week, I began looking for books on amazon that could help before we quit the service. I read many reviews of books with titles like "Ultimate Pool" or "Best Pool Practices,"--you get the idea. One reviewer gave a very detailed explanation as to why a particular book was inadequate and supplied the link to TFP. Thank you to that reviewer! I promptly went to TFP and started reading TFP's website, starting with Pool School several times as suggested along with numerous threads and also watching some youtube videos (how to clean out skimmer basket on pump, etc.). As per recommendations on TFP, I also ordered a TF-100 and a Speed Stir. I purchased an app for my iPhone called Pool Calc that was also suggested somewhere on TPF. I feel armed and ready and not just a little bit overwhelmed, but determined that I, too, can take on my pool & spa and get better results than with the service. However, now I have an awful lot of questions! If you're still following me you experts out there, thank you for reading my background information and thank you in advance for any and all help you may supply. I'm going to ask all my questions here, but please let me know if I need to put them in other posts as per rules of the forum. I'm not exactly sure where I'm supposed to be posting all my questions, but since I'm new, this forum seemed the most logical.

Question 1: Even with research, I have not been able to determine if my Pentair Whisperflo 2HP model # WF-28 is a 1, 2 or variable speed. Can you tell me and why does this matter?

Question 2: There is a piece of equipment that I cannot identify next to my DE; it looks kind of like a large bell on top of a long post with a valve at the bottom of the post and is at least a foot higher/taller than the DE. What is this? I can try to send a photo if needed.

Question 3: Do the pool and spa, which share the same plumbing, etc., each get treated or does treating the pool alone take care of both since they share water? I've been testing from each just in case...

Question 4: Does anyone know if the Pool Calculator that TPF links to can give incorrect readings? I've tried it on my iPad and my computer just to make sure it wasn't a software/hardware problem, but I still get what I believe to be an incorrect reading for how much bleach to add to raise my FC. Also, I can't seem to find a way to enter 8.25% bleach or in the correct quantity--another thing I didn't understand about using the Pool Calculator. Seems like a good time to look at test results, so I can ask my other questions (!):

Last night, after dark, here's what I got:
POOL
FC 6
CC clear
pH 7.65
TA 90
CH 320
CYA 90
CSI -0.06

SPA
FC 1.35
CC clear
pH 8
TA 80
CH 340
CYA 88
CSI 0.36

The Pool Calculator and Pool Calc app gave me some numbers, but the Pool Calculator came up with some tiny, minuscule number that didn't make sense, so I went with the Pool Calc app and added 8.25% liquid bleach to both pool and spa based on separate calculations for each. Unfortunately, I didn't write down how much I added and now I don't remember. I estimated, based on things I've read here and the charts that I should have an FC of 12ppm--is this correct?? I also forgot to note the water temperature. That said, I thought I should retest for FC and pH this morning to see how things were going. Here are the results:

POOL
FC 8
pH 7.65

SPA
FC 1.3
pH 8

So, I dutifully input into both the Pool Calculator and the Pool Calc app and came out with roughly (since I can't input the correct numbers) 130 oz of 8.25 bleach to add to pool (I could input 8%, so I simply added the 121 oz gallon of 8.25% to raise to FC !2 assuming FC 12 is correct) and 26 oz to the spa (I added 26 oz of 8.25%, again assuming an FC of 12). Pool temp was 88F. At this point, I think I'm rockin' and boy am I starting to understand what I'm supposed to be doing (after only two readings...) and then, WHAMMY, I do a test 40 minutes later on both pool and spa to make sure things are going well and get some REALLY strange results!!! See below:

POOL
FC 1.1

SPA
FC 2.05

What on earth is going on? Help!!!!

The Pool Calculator is telling me to add 0.4 oz of 8.25% and Pool Calc app says 330 oz to the pool to raise from 1.1 to 12 (assuming 12 is correct). I didn't bother calculating the spa, but came right to my computer to write this in the hopes of some help. I'm going to retest after I finish writing here and if the FC is still so low I'll add the 330 oz. because I'll be dangerously low on chlorine otherwise. If any of you wise and experienced pool keepers out there can provide some insight, I would love to have it.

Question 5: At the moment, because I have no idea what I'm doing, I'm spending at lot of time on this. If it continues to be more than 15 minutes a day I'm not sure that I can dedicate this to my schedule. As of now, I've been doing about 1-2 hours per day--am I in good faith that this in only temporary? What's normal time wise once one's pool is under control?

Question 6: I assume that my CYA is so high due to years of the pool service using pucks and the previous owner's using some kind of crystal products (I remember the bags of crystals, but don't know what they were...). Is it necessary to partially drain the pool/spa or can I just live with it like this adding larger amounts of bleach?

Question 7: I appear also to have a borderline CSI and I do have calcium scaling. Again, I assume this is due to the products that have been used up to this point (a good reason to BBB). Once the BBB method is adopted, will CSI be meliorated and the scaling start to go away? I've read some threads on TFP that would suggest this, but it would be nice to have it confirmed.

I realize that I've written a very long post and you've been great to stay with me so far. While I would love answers to all of my questions, I think the most pressing issue is the strange results I'm getting on FC this morning, so if anyone could provide some insight pronto on that one topic you'd have my sincere gratitude.

Thank you!!!
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Welcome to TFP.

1. A WF-28 is a single speed pump, a WFE-28 is a single speed, a WFDS-28 is a two speed. Whisperflo's are not variable speed.
2. That's most likely the spa blower. A picture would help verify.
3. As long as the pool and spa share water and the water flows through the spa suring pool run times the water is chlorinated for both.
4. As long as you enter the correct values (i.e. pool volume, bleach strength, etc.) it cannot give the wrong results. A common problem is using a comma in the volume.
5. i usually spend less than 5 minutes per day. Most days it's a couple of minutes.
6. depending on how high it actually is you may want to drian some water to get it to a manageable level. once you get the TF-100 you'll have a better idea what the CYA really is.
7. Worry about that once you get everything else balanced.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Bama Rambler, you're my hero! Thanks for your speedy reply!! The comma in the pool size area was exactly the problem I was having. I removed the comma and I got the correct reading--brilliant. You helped clear up a lot of my other questions, much appreciated. I'll look forward to hearing more details from anyone who feels like commenting. It's a learning process, that's for sure, but you gave me hope from your reply. I'm determined to stick it out with BBB because it seems like such a better way to care for a pool, and maybe myself, too.

Thanks again
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Welcome to tfp, Bassottina :wave:

Bama gave you some great info. My reading of your post suggests that your test results were done with your tf-100?
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Bassottina said:
Yes, I did all tests with the TF-100.
Click to expand...
Great :goodjob:

I think we can assume your cya is 90 ppm. I agree having cyanuric acid (cya) that high is not a surprise since you previously had a pool service and I bet they used chlorine pucks on your pool.

How does your water look?
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Some of your test results are bit puzzling. How did you get a pH of 7.65 or a FC of 1.35, since the tests in the TF-100 don't give that level of specificity? If your pump is running and the pool and spa share the water, how do they have such different FC and pH readings?
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

I'll be honest, I'm pretty freaked out right now because I've added 4 containers of 8.25% bleach (121 oz from Walmart) and my pool was only showing an FC 2.35 at 1:30 when I did the test last. I think, according to the numbers from the pool calculator and the cya chart that I should maintain an FC of 12. Can someone confirm this?

I'm also worried that I may need so much bleach to keep the correct FC level that between cost and physically carrying & storing the stuff, I might as well go back to the pool service...this is really scary stuff this pool chemistry!

I'm going to try to do an OCLT test tonight to see how much FC ppm I'm losing. What should I do to bring it up before testing, exactly?

Thanks all
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

I find them puzzling, too, believe me.

The K-1000 that I used to take the pH test says to average the two numbers if your color is in between. My color was between 7.5 and 7.8, average 7.65?

The FAS-DPD in the TF-100 gave me the FC of 1.35. I followed the instructions, multiplied the number of drops of R-0871 by .05.

If either of these are incorrect, please show me the correct directions or I'm really going to be lost.


My pool and spa do share the same water. I don't know why they have such different results, that's why I asked The question in my original post. Any thoughts?
 

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Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Bassottina said:
The FAS-DPD in the TF-100 gave me the FC of 1.35. I followed the instructions, multiplied the number of drops of R-0871 by .05
Click to expand...
There is the descrpency, you need to multiply you drops by 0.5 NOT 0.05.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Wow! That would make a difference, now, wouldn't it???

I looked at my instruction card included in the TF-100 and under Chlorine Drop Test, it says:

4. Next, carefully add R-0871 solution one drop at a time, swirling as you drop. Count each drop until the solution turns back to clear. Multiply the number of drops you added by x 0.5 (i.e., 14 drops x .05 = 7ppm). Record as free chlorine.

Can you see why I multiplied by .05? I looked at their sample equation. Glad you us pointed this out. You have no idea how glad.

Also, think I input the wrong numbers because I used a comma in the volume section last night when I ran the full set of tests. When I re-ran my numbers without the comma, the results were different, obviously.

Maybe instead of doing the OCLT tonight, I'll simply run a fresh batch of tests and see where I am.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

I see where the confusion came from. Dave will have get the white-out out. :whip:

That sounds like a good idea. Post the new set of results when you get them and we'll see where you are.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Had I actually done the sample equation in my head instead of blindly following it, I would have caught my error. Agreed, a bit of white out might not be a bad idea in any case. Some of us are a bit daft, (read, me!) and need the extra help.

I will run tests and post to see what you think about the new, corrected ones.

Thanks all of you--my panic level has decreased substantially.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Bassottina --

Hang in there -- you'll get it dialed. The initial learning curve may seem steep, but, it'll start coming together with practice and diligence.

Jan 2012, I was in the same boat. New-to-me house with a pool and the previous owners had a service. You already have an advantage on me -- you started with a proper test kit.

Regarding your plumbing and treating the spa/pool together or not, it's crucial to understand how it's plumbed and valved together. Its worth it to experiment and figure it and label everything and/or draw line diagram.

Based on your measurements, it seems like they are currently separated, for better or worse, depending on your desire/goal.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

You're doing good so far.

Remember that you're not only learning the chemistry of a whole new method of maintaining your pool, but you're also undoing the damage done by the pool service. The second part will take longer, I guarantee it.

Just know that while it seems like a struggle now, it will get easier by the day, and continue to get easier through a second swim season as well.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Just to let you know, I'm a new pool owner, and it takes me about 5 min average to do the testing. I test ph only about twice a week, and FC every day. The rest are only tested every two weeks or so. Adding bleach takes just a few minutes. Other pool maintenance takes on average 10 min a day (my kids do this). So hang in there, it gets easier.

Btw I don't know why the test says multiply by 0.5. Seems like it'd be easier and less confusing to say "divide in half".
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Bassottina said:
Wow! That would make a difference, now, wouldn't it???

I looked at my instruction card included in the TF-100 and under Chlorine Drop Test, it says:

4. Next, carefully add R-0871 solution one drop at a time, swirling as you drop. Count each drop until the solution turns back to clear. Multiply the number of drops you added by x 0.5 (i.e., 14 drops x .05 = 7ppm). Record as free chlorine.

Can you see why I multiplied by .05? I looked at their sample equation. Glad you us pointed this out. You have no idea how glad.

Also, think I input the wrong numbers because I used a comma in the volume section last night when I ran the full set of tests. When I re-ran my numbers without the comma, the results were different, obviously.



Maybe instead of doing the OCLT tonight, I'll simply run a fresh batch of tests and see where I am.
Click to expand...

The first few days may seem overwhelming, But rest assured it only will get easier. I noticed that slight typo in the test kit also, came here to verify, and was then off to conquer my swamp.

I took over my Father in laws pool in the beginning of July. Ordered the TF-100 test kit, and right now could read the year on a penny placed at the bottom of the pool :-D

I will tell you that before, I had no pool experience at all. I am just lucky that I found this place first before going to the pool store.

I found a local company that sells 55 gallon drums of 12.5% Hypochlorite (bleach), so you don't have to run to the store every three days, which was a great help to me since I inherited a swamp that took about 35 gallons of this stuff to finish the SLAM.

My nightly routine is checking the pH and Chlorine, maybe 5 minutes tops, then adding chlorine. Pool usually takes about 30-50 oz. of chlorine depending on Sun, Rain, Bathing load. I Do TA weekly, and really don't bother with CYA unless I have added it in the past 10 days..I don't really really mess with CH because its vinyl, I know its high from repeated yearly use of Calcium Hypochlorite(that will be addressed when we partially drain pool for winter). I will check the pressure on the filter to see if it needs backwashing when I am sprinkling my chlorine in front of the return jet. I vacuum the pool when needed....

It really is that simple. Over time you will get to know the pool, and almost be able to add chlorine without testing it(but don't get too far ahead of yourself yet) :lol:

Bottom line, you will not be worrying about the pool, YOU WILL BE ENJOYING IT!

Come here to ask questions, and get great answers....This is coming from a person that less than 7 weeks ago never had cared for a pool! You can do it!

Now if you will excuse me, I need to put some Sustain Pool Chemicals, along with some clarifier and phosphorus remover on Craigslist this morning...I figure what I get from that will pay for next years drum of Chlorine!!!!

Best of luck to you.
 
Re: Lots of questions for doing it myself first time this we

Thank you everyone for the encouragement, sharing your own experiences, and the good advice as well. I really appreciate it.

I suppose I ended up doing an OCLT last night because I took a new set of tests and then this morning I tested only for FC and pH. Here are the results:

LAST NIGHT:
FC 16.5
CC 0
PH 7.8
TA 90
CH 310
CYA 80
CSI 0.27

THIS MORINING:
FC 14.5
pH 7.8

I believe that last night's readings are finally correct thanks to you catching my errors during my first rounds of testing thurs nite thru yesterday morning. I also think the pH spiked a little due to me adding the enormous amount of bleach (due to incorrectly doing the tests, thus incorrect readings--live and learn) yesterday. No doubt this is also why my FC is still so high. I plan on retesting tonight and tomorrow morning again to see where the FC and pH are after a full day in the hot Houston sun and 36-48 hours of not adding any more bleach.

I realize that you may not have much to comment on until I get my FC into its target range, which I now believe to be FC 9, but I'm open to hearing anything you might suggest if something comes to mind.

Again, many thanks!
 

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