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Thread: pool pumps

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    pool pumps

    I am looking to replace my filter and pump. I currently have a American products pump 2 hp service factor is 1.1 or 1.15 and a titian DE vertical grid filter 36 sq ft . my pool is about 14,000 gal with a spa attached. It has 4 jets for the spa and 1 return in the spa and 2 return in the pool. I have a sand shark with a vac mate in the skimmer. the plumbing in the pad area is all 2 inch. I have a home warranty and they want to replace it with a waterworks pump and filter same size. I don't want this so I am taking the cash option and going to by better equipment. I am trying to stay close to dollar amount with what they are giving me. I am looking at the Pentair DE quad 60 sq ft filter but not sure which pump to go with . pool shop said the Pentair 2hp superflo is a option but I would like to go with the wisperflo but not sure I really need a 2 hp . but want good pressure for my spa. right know when I clean my filer (I have dogs that swim) about evry 7 weeks and I have so much suction that I cant regulate the flo on the sand shark I have the setting on the vac mate to the skimmer side and the sand shark climbs the walls and when it hit the water line and turns it sucks air and gets stuck. so I have a plug in the skimmer to the main drain and I have to unscrew it so it sucks some water from it to reduce the pressure . you have any suggestions on hp of a new pump
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

  2. Back To Top    #2
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    For your 14000 gallon pool, we would recommend a minimum of 40 sq. ft. DE filter...so you should be fine with the quad 60.

    For the pump, you are in a tougher position since you need higher flow for the jets, but when not using those jets (for massage) then you can get by with lower flow. I would recommend looking at 2-speed pumps. A few questions:

    Are you happy with your flow rate in the spa?

    What model pump do you have?

    What diameter spa jets do you have?

    What are your electric rates?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: pool pumps

    I am guessing on the pool size I went to a web site that you put the measurements of the pool in . the had on similar to my pool its kind of a serpentine shape or like a s but the depth on the chart didn't match mine . I have a play pool shallow on bot ends and deep in the center on one end its about 13'4 wide and 4'5 deep an 6 foot in the middle and 11'2 wide and 4'5 deep on the other end . the spa is 6 foot diameter and 4'5 give or take a inch. don't think it took the spa in the measurements.

    Pump is a American Products don't have a model on it. Inyo pools has several diagrams for this brand and the Ultra flow looks to be my pump . Its 2 hp with a service factor of 1.3 ( I just looked ) .

    I measured the jets they look to be about 3/4 to 1 inch a 3/4 inch socket fit snug in the hole their is 5 jets in the spa 4 for the spa and one return and 2 returns in the pool . the spa has a drain and the pool has a drain

    My electric is outrages last month it was 400.00 that's with the a/c running and the pump runs 6 hrs. a day in the winter its about 250.00 we only lived in this house a year but my highest bill was 500.00 we have a tiered system in my area and I am in tier 4 my bill shows my daily average is 56.03 kwh last year this time it was 54.6 kwh

    I think the jets blow pretty good and when the filter is cleaned I think almost to much but my wife likes it and said a bit more would be better .

    This is my tiers for electric
    tier 1 = .13
    tier 2 = .16
    tier 3 = .27
    tier 4 = .31

    I want a variable speed pump was sold on the Hayward sp3400. And not sure if I got a 2 speed the cost would be almost the same as the variable because I get 200. rebate from sce so I my upfront cost might be more. cause don't you need a controller set the different speeds on a two speed ?
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    With rebates, the VS pumps can certainly be more attractive if the cost becomes pretty close to a 2-speed pump. Plus then you can dial in the speed for the spa jets.

    For a 2-speed, you can just use a manual speed switch. You would run in low a majority of the time to save money on electricity and then flip on high when you need it (spa, backwash, vacuuming, etc).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  5. Back To Top    #5
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    Does the motor label show a 48y or 56j frame? What is wrong with it? For that matter, what is wrong with your filter?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: pool pumps

    it says frame y56y.
    the pump leaks and it been rebuild one when I bought the house . the filter leaks too and the plastic that holds the grids are breaking . all the plumbing has leaks and I have been patching it . the house came with a home warranty for 2 years and found out the cover pool equipment. So I called them and they said I need new pump and filter and wanted to give me waterway stuff or I can cash out and they would give me 1500 with installation so I think I get better equipment than waterways. and if I go to the variable speed and the filer I want with installation it look like it going to cost around 2200 they cover 1500 and I get 200 back from sce so my cost is about 500.00. but if I don't get the variable speed and just get a single speed I think I can get it in at the 1500 mark with installed. I was going to do this myself before I found out the insurance company would pay for some of it . I have already bought the pipe and most of the fittings and 2 new jandy 3 way valves . the pool was left empty when I bought the home were not going to move this is our last home so why not fix it right with newer stuff and don't have to keep patching it
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

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    Re: pool pumps

    it frame says y56y
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

  8. Back To Top    #8
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    It sounds like you are set on replacing, which is fine. I was trying to nail down what pump you have to suggest a 2-speed motor replacement.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: pool pumps

    it is a American products ulta flow 2 hp . I have looked at the 2 speeds and if I am going that route a variable speed would be the same price after rebates . the Pentair vs you find them in the high 800.00 range and the haward sp3400 for 900.00 . with a 200. rebate from sce it the same as a 2 speed .

    haward has two other variable speed pumps are they any good. and between Pentair and hawyard are they both equal in performance
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

  10. Back To Top    #10
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    Re: pool pumps

    If you did just want to replace the motor (keep your pump wet end) then the A.O Smith B2983 2-speed would be a good choice and can be had for ~$320 and the A.O. Smith B2983T which has a built in timer might also be a good choice at ~$375.0

    For vs pumps, I think both the Hayward superpump vs and the Hayward maxflo vs would be too small to give you good jet action (unless you reduced your jet diameter then the Hayward would likely be fine). They hayward ecostar vs and the pentair intelleflo vs would do fine with you current jet size. The pentair intelleflo i1 might just work as well, but this is a new pump afaik so not much longevity data on it.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    I think the i1 is the same as the Intelliflo with changes to the programming to limit the max RPM ... so they cost the same. It is not truely a smaller VS pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    I think the i1 is the same as the Intelliflo with changes to the programming to limit the max RPM ... so they cost the same. It is not truely a smaller VS pump.
    Good point jbliz...I forgot about that.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: pool pumps

    I believe you are in the So Cal Edison service area. Did you know that SCE offers a $200 rebate on certain pumps and motors? I used this program last year when I got my Pentair pump - no hassles even though I used my own subcontractor to install it. Here's a link to the program with a list of qualifying units.
    Mike
    https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/...tes/pool-pump/
    ~17' x 34' IG pool with attached spa - 20500 gallons - Gunite with a "pebblesheen"-ish finish
    Jandy iAqualink with iPad and Jandy PDA remote - Pentair IntelliFlo VS 11018 Pump
    AquaRite SWCG - Pentair SMBW 4060 DE Filter - Really Old Raypak heater
    "Wall-E" an Arneson-Hayward Navigator - A couple of Jandy/Zodiac WaterColors LED Lights - Blue-White F-1000 Flow meter

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    Re: pool pumps

    yes I did know that and am factoring this into my calculation's. I don't want to just replace the motor. we bought the home a year ago and it came with a home warranty. which I didn't know they covered the pool. Had their service person come out and they recommended replacing the pump , filter and backwash valve . But they want to use waterworks equipment. I don't want waterworks. So they said they would give me a cash out of 1485.00. I decided to get the Pentair quad 60 De filter found it for 599.00 and can get the Pentair vs or the Hayward sp3400 for 900.00 . plus taxes . Combined cost is what they are giving me and I will have better equipment . I have two new jandy valves I bought and 10 ft of 2inch pipe so I don't need to much more in parts and I have decided to cut everything ogg at the ground and put all neew valves and piping in. As most of the plumbing looks to have been broken before and patched . Then I will have a completlt new system except for the heater. And trouble free .

    Know doing all this is their anything I should know it looks pretty straight forward on the plumbing end . But I read some place that you should have 5 times the distance of you pipe size in fron of your pump so if I have 2 inch I should have 10 inches fron the valve to the pump
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    That last statement is pretty outdated, although the VS pumps have been shown to be sensitive to it. They may even call for a foot of straight pipe.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: pool pumps

    Thank you for all the help on my pump. I bought the Pentair vs and the quad 60 de filter and 2 new jandy 3 way valves, a check valve and all the pipe and fittings. Going to start installing everything next week on my days off. And since I am replacing everything from the ground up I hope to be trouble free for years to come. Is their any advice I should know when putting this all in it looks pretty straight forward.
    The only thing I have left is the heater its a Larrs Teledyne series 1 don't really heat my pool up as I live in SoCal I use it for the spa but when I turn the spa and heater on it heats up in about 40 minutes and shuts off but when its time to turn back on it just makes a clicking sound like the igniter is just clicking . I have to turn the unit off and then back on again to get it to fire up
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    If you have worked with PVC (and CPVC for the valves) then you should be fine.

    I would recommend using 2" for all the pad work to lower head loss.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: pool pumps

    Put all my new pool equipment yesterday and replaced all the plumbing from the ground up. No leaks and the Pentair vs runs pretty quiet can hear the fan running at about 20 feet away at setting 3 which is 2350 rpms but it pretty quiet. So my question is how do I determine what speeds to run the pump at ? I played with it a bit and with the vac mate and sand shark it work pretty good at 2300 rpm . So I programed it to run at that speed for 4 hours and 20 hrs. at 950 rpm which I let it run all night at that speed . Is that over kill ? and how can I determine how many times the pool is being turned over ? The chart the have at that low of rpm shows at 750 rpm shows 40 gpm and 1500 rpm range goes to 63 gpm but the head feet of water is well below what I think I am at. I read use 50 for head feet . IS this a trial and error thing
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: pool pumps

    Likely that is overkill.
    Do not bother to try to figure out head loss and flow rates ... it does not really matter and is not that trivial.

    Just read this and see what works for you:
    pool-school/pump_run_time
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: pool pumps

    Thanks I guess it trial and error my chemistry of my water has a good balance . I check it with a basic kit and then go to leslies every couple weeks the give you a detailed print out of all levels which I think is pretty cool. So running that long on a low speed might be to much I will start cutting it back a little at a time. I set it up that way cause I thought that was the purpose of the variable speed so you can run longer at low rpms and save money . I just want to turn my pool over more than once a day as I have a dog that is in it several times a day cant keep him out. And when we bought this home it was bank owned and the pool was empty so it very pours and that seems to attract more algae as I get yellow algae. And have good balance on my chemicals
    15k Gal, IG Plaster w/ spa, Pentair Variable Speed VS Pump, Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Larrs Telyidine Heater, Vac Mate, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Pool Cleaner

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