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Thread: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above water?

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    What lights can be installed on a raised wall above water?

    I'm having no success finding lights that can be installed in a raised wall at the end of my pool. It is a 24" wall extending up from the deep end. There are 2 sheer descent waterfalls, and I thought it would look nice to have a light in the wall behind each waterfall. What I was planning on using is what is called a deck, step or brick light. Recessed, with a face approx 3 x 8 inches. Louvers direct the light down. They would have a fairly low light level, so I don't think glare off of the water would be too bad (and they're behind waterfalls). I wanted the same thing on the opposite end of the pool, where there is an exposed wall on the outside of the pool structure. I found out that low voltage landscape lighting is not allowed within 5 feet of the inside edge of the pool. My pool builder said that his suppliers know of no approved light to use in this setting.
    What lights can be used near the pool edge?
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Fiber Optic. Do some searches and you may be able to find something that does what you want. Apparently the next edition of the Electrical Code may permit certain low voltage lights within five feet. But that is at least 2 years away.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    You can check out these (or other) low voltage lights:

    http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/W ... s-s/40.htm

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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Quote Originally Posted by jamgolf
    You can check out these (or other) low voltage lights:

    http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/W ... s-s/40.htm
    Nice try but no, not at the water's edge. Need fiber optics as previously mentioned.

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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Quote Originally Posted by AZHeat
    Quote Originally Posted by jamgolf
    You can check out these (or other) low voltage lights:

    http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/W ... s-s/40.htm
    Nice try but no, not at the water's edge. Need fiber optics as previously mentioned.
    One of those lights is actually for under water usage in ponds and waterfalls.
    The original poster can decide for himself.

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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Sure he can decide for himself, but instaling those loghts violates the NEC. Let me try and explain the problems. First, the NEC currently prohibits, with some very small exceptions, permanent electrical fixtures within five feet of a swimming pool. A swimming pool is not a pond nor a waterfall. Fixtures designed for ponds or waterfalls do not comply with the requirements of the NEC regarding pools. The big exception is pool lights. If your light complies with a pool light then it is allowed.

    The NEC is trying to prohibit any source of stray current shocking a person in or around the pool when they are most vulnerable

    There are a range of fiber optic products out there. Sure they have limitations but can often do what you want.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    What about an actual pool light with a custom cover made for it to project the light down. Then you comply with all safety regs?
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Sure under certain circumstances that might work. However, if you want to comply with the NEC then the completed housing, the light, and the run back to the sub panel (not just the deck box if you have one) all must comply with NEC 680. A fiber optic light with its source more than six feet from the pool does not need to comply with any of those requirements (the source light fixture may still need to be bonded).

    The NEC is trying to remove any source of stray current from entering the pool area and shocking bathers. The NEC then goes one step beyond and requires all conducting elements associated with a pool be bonded so that even if its first two lines of defense fail (insulation and GFCI) then you still won't get shocked.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    I'm in a similar quandary... we put in a small rock waterfall and wanted to backlight it, basically make the water glow a bit at night. It was one of those "design on-the-fly" things and we went round and round with our subcontractors on what we could use and meet code. We bumped up against what gwegan mentions that the NEC specs protections from the failures that protect you from failures of things that protect you. That is compounded with the issue that a lot of lights spec'd for pool use are also only spec'd for use below water. I found the fiber stuff too pricey.

    At this point we ended up re-routing the conduit we ran for the waterfall to a spot just behind the waterfall but outside the screen enclosure. It is tentatively wired off a 110V automated relay from a ground fault protected circuit. What we do from there is still a mystery to me.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Davelinde:

    I feel your pain. While it is expensive fiber is probably the way to go. Its on my list for my waterfall in about a year, or I may wait for the 2015 code changes which may, repeat may allow some low voltage lights in these situations.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    I did 12 volt lights ( CAST brand) around my inground. A couple of the path lights are less than 5 feet. I'm not he least bit worried. Neither was the inspector when he was out and saw them while inspecting something else. That part of the NEC that prohibits them needs to be changed. Sounds like its going to be; it should, it's a stupid rule.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Most inspectors aren't that generous. Still, it is worth asking your inspector about it. You might have someone accommodating, as bk406 did.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Our inspectors are not known for being generous or forgiving... I will probably just abandon the idea of lighting these features. The fiber optic waterfall lights don't give the natural effect I am thinking of, so I did not want to go with those. There will be nice landscape lighting around the pool deck. We should be ok.
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    Re: What lights can be installed on a raised wall above wate

    Cant you just wire it up, cover it up, and install it later?
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