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Thread: What did I do wrong?

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    What did I do wrong?

    I have kept my pool spot on with all levels. FC has never dropped below 2. Today I noticed some green algae on my 3 pentair color cascade bubblers on my shelf. I did not have time to look closer this morning but when I get home I will check I it is on top or behind nozzle. I wonder if I need to schedule them to turn on a couple times a day to get fresh chlorinated water in there.

    No algae anywhere else at all.

    Once I clean them, do I need to do anything special with FC level?


    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    You know you should post a set of test results whenever you ask an algae question.

    An FC of 2 ppm seems kinda low even for a swg pool. I'd raise it to shock level, turn off the swg and run an OCLT.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Spot on has no objective meaning. pool-school/read_before_you_post

    2 FC is acceptable for zero CYA, although it will last but hours, if not minutes, without solar protection. 2 FC with the recommended "spot-on" CYA level of 70 is insufficient. That's why you have algae.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Sorry... I should have given all the numbers. I am following the values recommended on the IC pentair unit.

    CYA=30
    TA=100
    CH=250
    FC= 2.0 to 4.0 (measured at different times of day it is always between 3.0 and 3.5.
    Salt=3400
    pH=always between 7.4 and 7.7
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    I have nothing to say!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    >>> I have nothing to say!

    Does that mean I should not be listening to the Pentair numbers...?

    The IntelliChem recommended values are even lower for CYA.. it says < 30.

    I just retested FC andc TC today and for the first time since I filled it my TC is 1.0 higher than FC (always zero or .5)... and FC is 2.0. We have not had anyone swimming for a few days... but just had a lot of rain... does that should I have been adding bleach to boost FC after the rain?
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    OK... Going to SLAM. pH was at 7.7 so i put some acid in... an hour later pH is at 7.4.. OK... so I wanted to recheck the Chlorine... now FC comes up at 3.5 and TC=3.5... this is with K-2006 kit. I did not add anything else yet to shock it. is this normal so see this difference? FC is better and CC is zero. My test earlier was with the last granules left in one of my DPD bottles... and the test just now was with the second fresh bottle of granules... could that have anything to do with it? Just had salt gen running (IC-60 at 75%).
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    OK... Going to SLAM.
    Now you're talkin'

    SLAM FC for 30 CYA is 16 ppm FC. Follow the SLAM article PRECISELY and your pool will clear...promise.

    The values we provide are based on precise calculations and backed up by hands-on experience of thousands of pool owners on the forum. They work.

    After your SLAM clears the pool and you finish the SLAM by performing the OCLT (remember, follow the article precisely), you should then take your CYA up to 70 ppm and maintain your FC between 3-5 ppm at all times.

    Happy SLAMming!!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    The only place I have algae is on the three pentair color cascade bubblers. And not on the surface... it is underneath... where water does not move or flow... it is not sealed, so some gets in, but I am sure it is not getting regular circulated chlorinated water.

    Anyone else have the Pentair or KBK bubblers and have this algae problem? Other than removing them every few weeks to clean them I an not sure how I can keep this from happening... I am SLAMming anyway... but, it seems that where water is not circulating, even SLAMming and maintaining a higher general FC level will not help me.
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    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    I started SLAM yesterday... got up to level last night. Lost less than 1.0 over night. CC is 0. Water is clear. Algae is still behind the plastic bubbler housing. It is in an area of the fixture that is not water tight, but does not allow much circulation if any at all. Anyone else have these bubblers and dealt with this?

    I had an issue with algae in my waterfall trough, but by programming it to come on a few minutes, twice a day to get fresh chlorinated water in the trough it has completely solved the problem. But with these bubblers I have no way to get water in there...
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    After two days of running bubblers on and off, no change. So I guess I need to remove them and clean the algae off... do I need to care about the algae getting in the water when I remove the light? As long as FC is good it will not matter, right?
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    As long as FC is good it will not matter, right?
    Very little but i would remove them from the pool and clean them in a very dilute (say 10:1 chlorox water mix) solution and then replace them. Just being cautious.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    I had not removed the bubblers to clean them since it is a pain in the neck to get the plastic nozzle piece out without breaking it. I was going to wait until I lower the water to close it and clean them out then once exposed. However, one of the bubbler lights failed (black.brown burn spot under the lens) so Pentair sent me a warranty replacement... and when I went to remove the bubbler and replace it, I found that the algae was not just a little on the lens, but the entire nich was covered in deep green algae. I have been running the bubblers twice a day in the hopes that some chlorinated water gets forced in there, but apparently it does not. There is no water circulation under there... I am at a loss for how I can keep this from happening again... I can pour some bleach in there when I replace it, but that will not last forever... obviously light is getting in there and the bleach will decay and algae will grow again. Just for comparison, I pulled one of my 5g lights and the niche is perfectly clean.

    This seems like a VERY poor design... does anyone else have the KBK or Pentair bubbler? If so, have you had any algae issues? The only thing I can think of is to place very small shims around the perimeter to allow a little circulation into the niche... but it will the not sit flush with the plaster and may be a trip hazard.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by jtech1
    Sorry... I should have given all the numbers. I am following the values recommended on the IC pentair unit.

    CYA=30
    TA=100
    CH=250
    FC= 2.0 to 4.0 (measured at different times of day it is always between 3.0 and 3.5.
    Salt=3400
    pH=always between 7.4 and 7.7
    Is your pool not exposed to sunlight (it sounds like it is from what you describe)? 30 ppm CYA would have your SWG barely able to keep up unless it was significantly oversized. What is your on-time percentage? We normally recommend the CYA to be higher at 70-80 ppm but have the FC be a minimum of 4 ppm at all times. This not only reduces the on-time for the SWG so that it lasts longer, but reduces the rate of pH rise in the pool. Are you seeing your pH go up over time fairly quickly (noticeable over days)?

    Technically, 2 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA should be OK, but only where the water is well circulated. So regardless of the FC/CYA level you end up using (so long as it meets at least the minimum), you'll have to figure out how to improve circulation in the area where that algae is growing. Probably the easiest thing to do in the short run is to SLAM and try to eradicate it completely, but the amount growing behind the bubbler that you describe is a problem. At a higher FC/CYA ratio, the chlorine will last longer since there is more in reserve so that might help a bit with the poor circulation in that any volume of water will carry with it a higher FC amount that can then attack the algae and not run out as quickly. After you've SLAMed the pool, try using a higher CYA level with a proportionately higher FC level (i.e. follow the Chlorine / CYA Chart for SWG pools).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Thanks, Chem. Since I posted those numbers on 7/30, I did raise the CYA to 60 and have kept FC at or above 4. The pH rise has slowed, but I still see it jump .5 in a week... the plaster is only 3 months old, so I am guessing this is normal. I do have to figure out a way to get water circulating in the niche.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    I think the bubbler algae has now got me...

    I have maintained my pool all summer without even a hint of algae, except under the bubbler. My numbers have consistently been:
    TA=100
    FC=4-6
    CC=never tested more than 0.5
    CH=230
    pH=always kept between 7.4 and 7.8
    CYA=started at 30 in June, but went to 50 after SWG connected

    Above I wrote about having to replace a failed bubbler and seeing tons of algae in the niche. I poured bleach in and covered it back up. It seems to have killed the algae in the niche... but now, about 5 days later, I am seeing algae spots around the pool. And my numbers have never been out of the ranges above. Is it possible that algae escaped from the bubbler in the minute I had it open before I poured bleach in, and got into the pool and took hold that fast? Even with all my parameters in order?
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Though you did a SLAM at the end of July, it doesn't sound like you did a SLAM when you cleaned out your niche. So yes, clumps of algae probably came out of the niche while cleaning it. If it's thick algae clumps or if it's biofilm (has bacteria mixed in with it), then it will be more resistant to chlorine. When you cleaned your niche, you should have SLAMed the pool at that time and filtered and backwashed/cleaned to remove the debris. It looks like you'll need to do that now.

    Is the algae you are now seeing growing and alive or is it just dead algae that has settled?
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Since it is on the other end of the pool and on the walls, I assume it is alive and growing and not just settled out... but is there any way to tell if algae is alive or dead by looking at it?

    I have already raise FC to SLAM level and am going to wait until tonight and brush the entire pool when I get home...
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: What did I do wrong?

    Looks like I have gotten rid of it... the algae in the light was gone when i removed it again (due to the direct dose of chlorine a few days ago) and the pool is holding FC level over night. No to let it get to normal level and may be swim this weekend.

    Do leaves in the pool contribute to algae growth in any way? Or just indirectly by way of consuming FC?
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: What did I do wrong?

    The leaves by themselves contribute some to chlorine demand though not as much as smaller particulate matter such as pollen due to differences in surface area. Unless you have a large number of leaves, you probably won't notice any difference in chlorine demand. Algae spores can get blown in but algae is killed if the chlorine level is at the appropriate level relative to CYA.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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