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Thread: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior Aqua

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    Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior Aqua

    We are in the process of building a pool. Right now our pool builder will be providing the Nature 2 System along with a DEL Ozone generator. I know the Nature 2 system will still require the chlorine but I want to try to be as chlorine free as possible. I have a family member with the HealthCare system and they love it. They have had it for many years without any problems. I know you can't be 100% chlorine free but I want the best for my family. Any advice??? Any other options available? I am so torn...they start digging next week.

    Thanks!!!
    17K gal, IG Pebble, 48 D.E., 2 HP 2 speed Jandy, Fusion In-ground & Nature 2, Del II Ozone System,Currently in the Build Process, 3 Sheer Descent Fountains, Bubbler on tanning ledge, Polaris 280 Black

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Please read this: Pool Myths Dispelled

    You will find few if any positive reviews here for either of those systems but plenty of very negative reviews, including from myself. Chlorine is the safest way to sanitize a pool. It quickly neutralizes any problems and when used properly there is less active chlorine in a pool than in city drinking water. It is great that you want the best for your family, but "mineral" systems are not the best.
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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    clorine-free-pools-t4297.html

    There's some reading for you.
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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Welcome to tfp, amy13c

    We would recommend against both of those systems.

    The Nature2 adds copper to the pool that can stain it and cause blond hair to turn green.

    Ozone systems are just not needed in typical bather load residential outdoor pools.

    Either way, you still would need a sanitizer. The three epa approved sanitizers are chlorine, bromine and biguanide. Bromine is more difficult to maintain in pools and some people are sensitive to it and its smell. Do some searching on here for biguanide and you will find only problems with cloudy water and lots of money spent. That leaves you with chlorine, but that is not a bad thing since when used properly it is a very safe, and unnoticeable via smell or feel. Chlorine does get a bad rap from incorrectly maintained pools and public pools where the "active" chlorine level is much higher than what we teach here at tfp.

    Maybe we can answers your questions/concerns about using appropriate levels of chlorine to keep your water safe and algae free?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    The Nature2 for pools uses a combination of copper ions (for algae prevention) and silver ions (for disinfection of fecal bacteria) so for an ozonator that would need to be purchased separately while the HealthCare System by Superior Aqua uses a combination of what appears to be copper only plus ozone.

    Copper ions do not kill fecal bacteria and both copper and silver ions combined kill bacteria slowly and do not inactivate viruses or do so very slowly. See this post for technical details from numerous scientific peer-reviewed papers in respected scientific journals.

    Metal ions can also stain pool surfaces and while we have dozens upon dozens of such reports, there are specific ones related to the HealthCare system in this thread and this thread. Copper ions also cause blond hair to turn greenish as described technically in this paper.

    Ozone is effective at disinfection for water passing through the ozonator, but does nothing for pathogens that are not circulated including those attached to pool surfaces and turnover rates for residential pools are measured in hours while bacterial reproduction rates are on the order of 15-60 minutes. Also, most residential ozonators are woefully undersized. If you were to have a very powerful ozonator that left some residual of ozone in the bulk pool water then that would be different, but then you would need to consider the risks from ozone outgassing and the additional chlorine loss since ozone reacts with chlorine increasing chlorine demand (which is the opposite of what you are looking for since you'd need to maintain a higher chlorine level to compensate).

    Also, as for using a minimum of chlorine, you should be aware that with the proper use of chlorine with Cyanuric Acid (CYA) in a pool as described in the Pool School, the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level is equivalent to a pool with only 0.07 ppm FC and no CYA so is a very low level. You can't compare this chlorine approach with what you find in some commercial/public pools, especially indoor or other pools that use no CYA in the water. CYA not only protects chlorine from breakdown from the UV in sunlight, but it significantly moderates chlorine's strength.

    If you still want to reduce the level of chlorine in the pool and are willing to spend more money to do so, then you can use a supplemental algaecide, but one that does not cause staining such as adding Polyquat 60 weekly, but this really isn't necessary since chlorine alone can prevent algae growth at the levels described in the Chlorine / CYA Chart.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Thank you so much everyone. The information really helped. I am leaning towards just using chlorine or a SWG system now. I know my family member who has the HealthCare System has a vinyl pool so he does not have to deal with staining. Since our pool will be plaster (with a pebble finish) it might not be worth the extra cost worrying about the staining. Not to mention most of our family are blonds and I couldn't imagine sending my children to school with green hair. Here is the information about our pool and current set up (once the pool is complete). What do you think might work the best for us...I am willing to look at anything at this point.

    37 X 19 freeform, 468sq ft., 17,500 gallons
    2 H.P. 2 Speed Jandy + SVRS
    48 D.E.
    Fusion In-ground & Nature 2
    Del II Ozone System

    Also, I did not mention that we live in Texas with the sweltering heat of the summer. I am going to read up more on the pool school and the BBB method everyone talks about. We grew up with pools all of our life but this is our first pool that we will have to care for. We were never involved in the chemical side of taking care of the pool before. I want to be sure we do this right. Thanks again for all of the advice!!!
    17K gal, IG Pebble, 48 D.E., 2 HP 2 speed Jandy, Fusion In-ground & Nature 2, Del II Ozone System,Currently in the Build Process, 3 Sheer Descent Fountains, Bubbler on tanning ledge, Polaris 280 Black

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Using liquid chlorine to sanitize your pool or using a SWG are very similar. Its mostly a matter of cost vs. convenience.

    With liquid chlorine, you don't have the initial expense of purchasing the SWG, but you will have to manually add the liquid chlorine to your pool everyday. Also, you will have to purchase liquid chlorine.

    With a SWG, you have the initial expense of the SWG, but this is a more automated way to chlorinate your pool. Also, you don't have the expense of purchasing the liquid chlorine.

    Over time, the cost of liquid chlorine vs. a SWG is about the same. And with both approaches, you will have to test your pool daily (at least initially).
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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Since you are in Texas, be aware that some of the hardscape stone material that is used there is soft stone and can have problems with the higher salt levels in saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools. You can either seal the stone regularly or use a harder stone. Some builders in Texas will refuse to use stone with SWG pools or will refuse to warranty them.

    We don't live in Texas, don't have an SWG, but we still seal our concrete hardscape every year. Sealing helps protect stone and concrete from weather not just from salt splash-out and evaporation.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    Quote Originally Posted by amy13c
    2 H.P. 2 Speed Jandy + SVRS
    This seems large for your pool unless you have some high volume water features or a spa.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    I know a few of the pool contractors we worked with on getting bids did speak of the salt water having a problem with the rock. We are not going to be sealing our concrete so it will not be slippery around the pool. All of our stone work (the coping and rock wall) will be Oklahoma flagstone. I am not sure if that would make a difference using the SWG. I wonder if removing the Nature 2 and Del Ozone equipment might make up for the cost of the SWG. I honestly have no idea about costs for the SWG. We at one point were looking at the Nature 2 and a SWG system but that was so brief I can't remember the cost.

    As for the pump - we have 3 sheer descent fountains off the back rock wall and a large bubbler fountain on our tanning ledge. I know a few proposals we had from other builders wanted to give us 2 pumps to run everything...one for the pool and one for the water features.
    17K gal, IG Pebble, 48 D.E., 2 HP 2 speed Jandy, Fusion In-ground & Nature 2, Del II Ozone System,Currently in the Build Process, 3 Sheer Descent Fountains, Bubbler on tanning ledge, Polaris 280 Black

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    Re: Help..Nature 2 System vs. HealthCare System by Superior

    With the right sealer, the rock will not be slippery. Our cement is not slippery except for the first day right after it has been sealed. My wife had polio when she was 3 and walks with a limp so has to avoid slippery surfaces. Our concrete is textured but is also sealed and is not a slip hazard. Sealant absorbs into the concrete to protect the interior from absorbing water -- it is not a gloss on the surface.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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