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Thread: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other problems

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    DE filter coating through pump priming box & other problems

    Hi, new the the forums and new home owner with a 16x32 vinyl pool. Using a Hayward Perflex 65A (I think...the serial number says ECX1184AT) DE filter. The filter has recently been causing me problems, where the filter pressure will rise 10 psi in as few as 30 minutes and there will be very little return flow. That is causing me the biggest grief, because I can't really filter my pool.

    There are a number of problems going on that I have either inherited from the previous home owners or caused through my pool newbie mistakes, including:

    1. skimmer line has a big leak underground (under the concrete, that will be a fun repair)...lost 900 gal overnight. consequently the skimmer is plugged and also disconnected from the pump suction. I am only pumping through the drain

    2. I added DE pound by pound through the priming box as the only way to get it into the filter, but doing this sends a lot of air through the filter at the same time, so I don't know how good of a job it is doing

    3. my FC was 1.5 ppm with 150ppm CYA ... so I had good water for a while but lately during these 95 deg sunny days have had algae blooms... I just drained half my pool and am refilling. Am going to stop using trichlor stabilized tablets and add bleach and CYA independently from now on

    4. my pool has metals, not sure if that could contribute (turned green a while back, which I chelated out)

    So about a month back I did take apart the filter and soak it in some store bought DE filter cleaning solution from Leslie's (sodium bisulfate I think...it is a red solution) I did not read the forums prior to doing that so did not do a degrease in detergent first, although I did hose all the old DE gunk off. The problem is, I might have clogged it back up right away because I didn't load it with DE right away (didn't realize skimmer was plugged off from previous owner....D'oh). So anyway, the filter is clogged again.

    So a couple questions:

    - do I need to take apart the filter and clean again? Those 15 bolts are a real pain in the rear end...
    - should I just backwash and add through the priming box again, but add less? The recommended 6 # by Hayward seems like too much to me
    - is my DE through the pump priming box not going to work for proper filter coating (requiring an expensive concrete rip up)?

    In the meantime, time to wait for a few days while my puny garden hose pumps 11,000 gallons back into my pool.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    For the concrete rip-up: Have you considered doing it yourself?

    Not knowing where you are location wise, I'd be willing to bet there are a few concrete workers that will freelance a small job like yours. All you would need to do is rent the appropriate equipment for them to use, if they didn't have it themselves.

    Repairing the plumbing shouldn't be a problem once you have the concrete off of it.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    This is my pump/filter



    Similar in construction to your's but it has a belly clamp, not screws.

    Are you adding the DE via the skimmer (top left in my photo) or the pump strainer (clear plastic lid by the motor)? You should be adding it via the skimmer where the water is drawn in from to pool. I just wanted to be sure we are talking about the same thing.

    Do you use your "bump handle"? This handle, when the pump is off and the pressure relief is open, will move the DE around inside the filter body. When the pool is clear, you only need to pump every week or so (when the pressures rise more than 10 PSI above clean pressures). If the pool is green or has lots of debris, the pressures will rise very quickly (30 minutes or less). The filter will also clog up quickly if you vacuum and have lots of leaves and debris. Instructions for using the bump handle are prted in the top of my black lid. I am missing part of the handle in this shot. I cannot take the lid off with the second part of the handle on.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    Hello pleasantpool,
    Welcome to TFP!

    We're glad to have you here.

    The key thing here, is....
    Quote Originally Posted by pleasantpool
    3. my FC was 1.5 ppm with 150ppm CYA ... so I
    had good water for a while but lately during
    these 95 deg sunny days have had algae
    blooms... I just drained half my pool and am
    refilling. Am going to stop using trichlor
    stabilized tablets and add bleach and CYA
    independently from now on.
    You have an algae bloom from letting your FC get too low in relation to your cya. An eeeextreemely common problem. Your filter is doing exactly what it should, catching algae. Hence its pressure is rising so quickly, it's clogging up!

    You need to kill that algae and SLAM your pool! This stands for "Shock Level and Maintain".
    See the article in pool school on the subject.
    It sounds like you have been doing some reading and are beginning to understand the TFP ways.
    Do you have one of our recommended test kits? If not, see link in my sig: "TF100 test kit" for a comparison of the kits. You'll need one if these to SLAM your pool.

    I think you'll find that your filtration problems will go.away once you get all that algae killed and your pool sparkling clean! At the very least, it needs to be done and will reveal the true culprit if a filtration problem still remains afterward.

    If your cya truly was 150ppm and you only drained and refilled half your water, that's still a VERY HIGH CYA level. You'll need to drop it down even more, in order to affordably shock it so you use less CL and to maintain it in the future. This is assuming you don't have a SWCG, where if you do, that level is great. But otherwise, it doesn't sound like you do and are just dosing manually with CL. Given the case, you'll need to drop it down more.

    Also, please fill in your sig as instructed in pool
    school, 1st link, also your location in your profile
    under user control panel.

    Thanks,
    Tony.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Guest

    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    to be clear, I have to use pump strainer, not the skimmer. Skimmer is plugged and closed off due to leak.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    How are you getting the water from the pool to the pump? You could create a slurry of water and DE in a bucket and use a vacuum hose to draw this mixture into the pump. To make this easier, you could "float" the slurry bucket on it he surface of the water and then you only need to move the hose end an inch or so in the air to minimize air entry.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    Okay, getting a bit off topic on the subject matter, but here is some info on the CYA issue:

    I measured my pool and built a model in Google Sketchup along with a volume calculator plugin to know exactly how much water I drained.

    Before draining, I had 16078 gal. After draining for 3 hours with the filter pump out onto my lawn, I was down to only 5032 gal left in the pool. Assuming I had 150ppm in the pool at the start, after refilling with well water up to 17354 gal (4" higher than before draining, because I was below skimmer level at the start), I think I should have (5032 * 150ppm + 12322 * 0)/17354 = 44 ppm CYA. That should be a reasonable stabilizer concentration I think. If my calculation is wrong about the concentration, let me know now, as draining the high concentration remainder is a lot faster than a 2nd drain and refill.

    I don't really understand techguy's explanation about loading slurry. But if my DE filter was going to high psi and no return flow very quickly simply because I was really loaded down with algae, then that could be a simple explanation.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasantpool
    ...But if my DE filter was going to high psi and no return flow very quickly simply because I was really loaded down with algae, then that could be a simple explanation.
    That is what is happening.

    Have you used the bump handle on your filter? It could save you money on DE.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    yup, I've made good use of the bump handle. I think the last time I reassembled the filter I may not have seated the bump handle shaft gasket well, because it bubbles a tiny bit while bumping, but hopefully it's ignorable.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    Pleasantpool, your calculations seem right. But it all assumes that what was plugged into Google Sketchup was accurate enough. Volume calculations can be tricky.

    I'm no math whiz, but I compared your formula to what poolcalc says and it works.

    Now, you need to slam that puppy! Kill that algae!

    Re-run the cya test just to be sure.
    This test is critical for proper shock levels when SLAMing.

    Remember, outside, waist level and back to sun. You can keep dumping it back in the squirt bottle and testing again that way. Do this as many times as you need to, to where you feel you're getting consistent results. Remember, that dot has to be completely gone!
    Looking away for a few seconds, then back at the tube can help.

    Did I mention we like photos? Yeah, I know, we're WEIRD!
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Guest

    Re: DE filter coating through pump priming box & other probl

    Hi,

    Thought I'd give an update on what's going on. I refilled the pool from well water from my house over the course of a week (got a little scared I was going to dry out my well...only getting about 3.8 gpm out of the garden hose). Once filled I tested and found my CYA was down to 40 or 70 ppm from 150ppm+, depending on which pool store's test I trust more. Surprisingly, I also only tested at their stores to have 0.5ppm Cu and 0ppm Fe, as I was expecting higher amounts from the well. Oh well, nothing to complain there, and currently no color to the water. Pre-shock I tested 3.9ppm FC. Note that I've been putting off the $100 investment in a real pool test kit, so I've been relying on store tests or using my test strips to test for high FC by diluting 2-3x with well water to get the FC <10ppm.

    So on my first shock I used 12.5% liquid chlorine and bleachcalc to raise my FC to 24ppm. (distributed 20ppm worth of chlorine around perimeter of pool). Some scrubbing and 2 days later, I added another 8ppm to replace the consumed FC from the algae, and after those 2 shocks the FC seems to be holding more less, at least based on my very rough test strip dilution, around 10ppm. So once I see my FC drop to a target of 4.6-6.8ppm I will maintain.

    I've also been frequently bumping the filter, and plan to dump the DE and reload some more (EC65 calls for 6 pounds, but I read here that 80% of recommended when replacing after a backwash is more appropriate). The filter seems to be running better than before when I had the algae blooms on the corners of the pool, so I think you guys were right that the DE filter was simply doing its job but was under heavy load.

    The remaining problem with the pool is that leaking plugged off skimmer line. I get tons of bugs falling in my pool, so I'd really like to get it fixed, but I don't really want to dig up the concrete until I replace the entire concrete deck, since the deck is 30+ years old and definitely showing its age. Maybe paving stones are a better option? That way future repairs would be as simple as picking up pavers instead of sawing through concrete.

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