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Thread: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

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    tracy070's Avatar
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    High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    The Story:
    I have almost had my pool for a year now, when I first started my CYA was around 80...high but manageable. My CYA is currently 140 and I have been battling to keep the algae out. From everything I have read, it is because of the trichlor pucks that I use as my main source of chlorine. Looking at switching to bleach using the BBB so that i don't drive my CYA up, but how often will I have to add it, how much (loaded question, depends)? I am wondering what the average person is doing out there.

    I have never drained a pool before, and I want to know how. I will post a picture of my pool equipment so that someone can help me figure out what valves to move. I'm guessing I just need to turn the suction off the skimmers (but how) and then I can turn the multi-port valve to dump from there. If anyone can label the valves I didn't so that I know what they do that would help. I had a local pool guy out, and he wasn't very helpful...just told me that he dodn't know why they put so many useless valves in
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    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Yes, partially draining your pool is the first step. How did you get the cya number? 140 is higher than most tests can test.

    As to how ofter you need to add bleach/liquid chlorine, most do it once daily (become routine).
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    I had the same problem when I bought a house with a pool. I had to do a drain and fill about 80% of the water. Since then I have been using the BBB method and it has worked out great. I measure levels and add bleach/liquid chlorine daily, and add acid as needed to keep Ph down (High TA causes it to float up slowly). I keep the FC level at about 6.5 due to 50ppm CYA (pool is in the sun all day), and need to add between 2 cups and a quart each day. It seems that with my pool, in the sun, with 50 CYA I will lose about 2ppm FC daily. This way at 6.5ppm FC I never drop below the minimum recommended level of 4ppm. From what I have read here there are some automatic methods for dispensing bleach if you don't have time everyday, but I would recommend going with the manual method for a few weeks so you know about how much chlorine you will need to add daily to keep FC levels up.
    27', ag, vinyl, 17000 Gal, Cartridge filter, 2hp pump, k-2006 test kit (best money I ever spent)

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Yes, partially draining your pool is the first step. How did you get the cya number? 140 is higher than most tests can test.

    As to how ofter you need to add bleach/liquid chlorine, most do it once daily (become routine).
    I use Leslies FAS DPD test kit, biggest problem with this kit is that it doesn't measure the chlorine levels high enough so I am gussing when I shock.
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    The FAS-DPD kit does not have the FAS-DPD chlorine test in it?...it should, though most leslies do not carry the fas-dpd test. Are you confusing it with the DPD test?

    How did you get 140 ppm cya using that kit? It only goes to 100 ppm cya.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Camels20
    I had the same problem when I bought a house with a pool. I had to do a drain and fill about 80% of the water. Since then I have been using the BBB method and it has worked out great. I measure levels and add bleach/liquid chlorine daily, and add acid as needed to keep Ph down (High TA causes it to float up slowly). I keep the FC level at about 6.5 due to 50ppm CYA (pool is in the sun all day), and need to add between 2 cups and a quart each day. It seems that with my pool, in the sun, with 50 CYA I will lose about 2ppm FC daily. This way at 6.5ppm FC I never drop below the minimum recommended level of 4ppm. From what I have read here there are some automatic methods for dispensing bleach if you don't have time everyday, but I would recommend going with the manual method for a few weeks so you know about how much chlorine you will need to add daily to keep FC levels up.
    Thanks for the information, helps me in the direction of the BBB. I do frequently take business trips, but i think only for those times i can use the tri-chlor tabs in the chlorinator so that I can return to a sparking oasis, then return to the bleach while I'm home.
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    You need to add the FAS-DPD chlorine test to your kit ... that will give you the equivalent to the recommended K-2006:
    http://tftestkits.net/FAS-DPD-Chlorine- ... t-p47.html

    So how did you get 140 when the lines stop at 100? If it was ~half way below the line, then the CYA is likely MUCH higher. Try the CYA test with a 50/50 mis of pool and tap water to start, then the reagent, then double the result. Or maybe even use 33/66 split and triple the result.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    You need to add the FAS-DPD chlorine test to your kit ... that will give you the equivalent to the recommended K-2006:
    http://tftestkits.net/FAS-DPD-Chlorine- ... t-p47.html

    So how did you get 140 when the lines stop at 100? If it was ~half way below the line, then the CYA is likely MUCH higher. Try the CYA test with a 50/50 mis of pool and tap water to start, then the reagent, then double the result. Or maybe even use 33/66 split and triple the result.
    Yes, you are right, it is the DPD test kit. I have been doing the 50/50 mix and doubling the result since it has been over 100ppm.
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Then you just need to add the kit jbliz linked too.

    So with a cya of 140 ppm, you need to drain 65% (2/3rds) of you water to get down to 50 ppm cya (tfp recommended level). Do you know how high your ground water is? There is a risk of popping or floating the pool out of the ground if the water table is high.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Then you just need to add the kit jbliz linked too.

    So with a cya of 140 ppm, you need to drain 65% (2/3rds) of you water to get down to 50 ppm cya (tfp recommended level). Do you know how high your ground water is? There is a risk of popping or floating the pool out of the ground if the water table is high.
    I haven't checked my water table yet. We just had a dry spell of a month, was thinking it would be a great time...then we had rain last week for 4 days straight. Having a hard concrete pebble tec pool I am hoping that, and a low water table will help me accomplish the partial drain. I used to be a basement excavator in Minnesota before moving to Dallas over a year ago, I don't see how where I am at that the water table would be an issue. I will look into it though, just to be sure.

    So can you tell based on my photos, what valves i need to rotate to turn off my skimmers?
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    We can't tell from that photo, we would at least need a clear view of the pipe going into the end of the main water pump and where it leads. this is blocked in the photo you posted.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    If you travel frequently, a Liquidator, a peristaltic pump or a SWG may help you stay away from pucks.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    We can't tell from that photo, we would at least need a clear view of the pipe going into the end of the main water pump and where it leads. this is blocked in the photo you posted.
    I hope you can see it in one of these...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Bump...

    How do I turn the skimmers off to drain the pool?
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Looks similar to my setup. On my pool, the valves controlling the skimmers and main drain are in the row of four that have pipes going down into the ground. If you do not have any documentation, I would start with these valves. You want the skimmers off but main drain open. Note that it may take some experimenting to get the right sequence.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Without knowing which valve does what, it's impossible to say which one(s) to turn to isolate the main drain.
    It appears that you can dedicate some of the returns and suctions to either suction or return. There's one pipe in the middle that doesn't have a valve. My guess would be that it's the main drain and if it is, you can turn the other two on the right before the actuated valve opposite of how they are in the picture and it will pull only from that pipe.

    Do you know which valve does what?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    I have NO CLUE what the four valves in the middle do. I have experimented in the past with them, but only had two reactions:

    1. Didn't notice any change, maybe turned off the return from the bottom drains in the pool...
    2. I ended up sutting off all the suction and had no water coming in.

    The valves are in the same direction as when I moved in. Maybe I can play more and hopefully figure it out.

    Should I only have to move one of the 4 valves (or Two) in the middle to shut off the skimmers? I have 2 skimmers

    If I don't figure it out I will have to just run to the store and buy a sump pump. Not sure if they even rent or sell them here since there aren't many basements in the area, but plenty of pool owners so hopefully.

    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    I would start with the one just left of the actuated valve and turn the handle to the right and see what that does. Then I'd turn it's handle straight up and see what that does. Then do the same thing to the next valve.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by tracy070
    If I don't figure it out I will have to just run to the store and buy a sump pump.
    Might be cheaper (and certainly more educational) to call a pool service company to give you an hour or so of consulting on how to run your equipment. This is what I did when I first moved into this house and would recommend this approach before renting/buying any pumps. Eventually, you will need to know how to operate your pool's equipment. Take notes!
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: High CYA thinking of switching to the BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by BoDarville
    Quote Originally Posted by tracy070
    If I don't figure it out I will have to just run to the store and buy a sump pump.
    Might be cheaper (and certainly more educational) to call a pool service company to give you an hour or so of consulting on how to run your equipment. This is what I did when I first moved into this house and would recommend this approach before renting/buying any pumps. Eventually, you will need to know how to operate your pool's equipment. Take notes!
    As you will see from my first post, I already spent $85 and had a pool guy come out. He wasn't very helpful and could not figure it out for me. He was able to tell me how to switch the flow to the spa and back to the pool and gave me maintenance tips, but that was about it. I could either try another company, or accept that whoever built the pool made some very strange choices.
    20K gallon IG Gunite-pebble w/ raised spa/waterfall, Hayward 6020 DE filter, unknown pool/spa/waterfall pump, unknown blower blower, LPG heater, Ultrapure Ozonator 25, 2004, Dallas TX

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