Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Any information or tips will help.

    I have an inground pool in my back property and have been getting VAC readings of .5-1.8VAC using a voltmeter placed in the pool water. An experienced electrician did not record any loss from my pump and beleives that it is coming from a source in the ground. I do have underground utilities but they have so far checked out to be good according to the utlity company. In addition, I added a water bond to ground the water and the readings still record. Further, when the pump and breaker to my entire home is shut off there is still voltage.

    Any tips or insite into this issue would help, some have told me that it may be stray voltage but the source of this problem needs to be located. As you could imagine, this issue has become somewhat stressful.

    Feel free to email me personnaly if you wish.

    njk444@yahoo.com

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Welcome to TFP!

    What exactly are you measuring between? Do you have both probes in the water, and if so how far apart, or is one of them connected to something else, and if so what?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    What prompted you to start measuring the voltage at various points? I would guess that people have been reporting feeling something like minor shocks, especially on cuts?

    Is this a salt pool?

    Are you getting a DC voltage?

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bixby oklahoma
    Posts
    80

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Digital voltmeters will show voltage when sometimes there is none present. I was working on a transformer and getting some wired voltage when i should not have. I called a very wise engineer friend of mine and he said check it with an analog meter. no volts were shown. He explained to me that the digital meters are so sensitive that even static can show as voltage. I have gotten a reading between my hands with a digital meter. What brand of meter, has it been calibrated recently.

    My question is why are you checking the for voltage in your pool water.
    20'x 48" Intex.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Round Rock, TX
    Posts
    138

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by foster400
    My question is why are you checking the for voltage in your pool water.
    LOL. That was my first question!
    35'x16' IG geometric with 8'x6' spa (16.5K gallons); White Diamond Pebblesheen w/Abalone Shells; Jandy 460 cartridge filter; Jandy 2HP E pump; Jandy 400K heater; Water Tech Blue Diamond Pro; TF-100 w/SpeedStir

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Henderson, TN
    Posts
    218

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    What prompted you to start measuring the voltage at various points? I would guess that people have been reporting feeling something like minor shocks, especially on cuts?

    Is this a salt pool?

    Old thread, I know, but my wife has actually said she feels like she gets shocked in the pool. I believe it's just that it's her cuticles where she constantly gets them torn and open. Is this pretty normal for cuts? Mine is salt
    35000 gallons
    Hayward Sand Filter
    Jandy AquaSeries Ei Pure Salt System
    IG
    Vinyl
    Pentair Superflow 1hp

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    No it is not normal and potentially serious. If the pool was bonded correctly, you should not feel any shocks/tingling.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Henderson, TN
    Posts
    218

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    No it is not normal and potentially serious. If the pool was bonded correctly, you should not feel any shocks/tingling.

    What should my course of action be to investigate?
    35000 gallons
    Hayward Sand Filter
    Jandy AquaSeries Ei Pure Salt System
    IG
    Vinyl
    Pentair Superflow 1hp

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Have an electrician check your electrical system and bonding.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Henderson, TN
    Posts
    218

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Will do. Thanks. I haven't heard her say anything about it in a while now. But I will have it checked out.
    35000 gallons
    Hayward Sand Filter
    Jandy AquaSeries Ei Pure Salt System
    IG
    Vinyl
    Pentair Superflow 1hp

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    Welcome to TFP!

    What exactly are you measuring between? Do you have both probes in the water, and if so how far apart, or is one of them connected to something else, and if so what?

    Close to a year later and still no luck. This issue was brought to my attention during an extremly hot week when my wife and son felt bee stings when they touched the water. This prompted me to speak with many professionals who directed me to measure the water with a voltmeter. Engineers from JCPL have since also measured voltage in the water but concluded that it is "neutral to earth voltage" with the levels of voltage being in a safe and acceptable level. I can't make this up, sounds crazy. Anyway, when the utility disconnects my service from the transformer to my home (underground utilities) most of the voltage goes away. Unfortunately, the utility still does not want to take responsibility. From speaking with many this seems to be a common issue in my area due to the sandy soil and the last thing I want to do is tear up the area around my pool and reground everything including add more grounds. Any insite would help. My pool appears to be bonded and grounded properly but who really knows, everything is covered with concrete.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    If your pool was bonded correctly what you describe would be impossible. Thus we know that your pool is not bonded correctly.

    You never really answered most of our questions. In particular: What two points are you measuring voltage between? (or what sets of points do you see voltage across).

    Neutral to earth voltages are fairly common, not at all crazy. They are almost invariably a result of utility service mistakes, but the utility is only sometimes willing to fix the underlying problem. Bonding is specifically designed to prevent any such problem from affecting people in or around the pool.

    Re-grounding things and/or adding more grounds is not what you want to do. What you want to do is to fix the bonding system, which has nothing to do with grounding. If your current system is grounded in more than one place (somewhere in addition to near the main electrical panel for the house) that might be part of the problem.

    What do you see, in detail, that lead you to say "My pool appears to be bonded and grounded properly".
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    How old is your home? Your home's neutral may be corroded, giving your home what is called an "open neutral", and now the pool is acting as the neutral-to-ground path.

    Here is an interesting discussion about this condition from a few weeks ago on another forum: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r291...-keeps-MELTING

    If this is the problem, it needs to be fixed asap. What feels like a bee sting now could be dramatically more dangerous if a bunch of 120v appliances are switched on.
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JesseWV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    North Central WV
    Posts
    526

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Based on the thread you linked to, I would be calling the power company NOW. This is EXTREMELY dangerous. Until they can check it out, I would be using a bare minimum of electrical devices.
    16k gal, 28'x3.5', Vinyl A/G, 1hp Pentair Dynamo 2-speed Pump, Hayward S160T Sand Filter, Intermatic HB800RCL Digital Timer, Intex 8110 SWG, TF-100 Test Kit, SpeedStir Author: Jesse's Graphical Pool Testing Log

  15. Back To Top    #15
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Umm, go back and read the original post:
    Quote Originally Posted by njk View Post
    Further, when the pump and breaker to my entire home is shut off there is still voltage.
    This has nothing to do with a disconnected neutral. All of the evidence points to ground currents and bad bonding.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Yes, but then later he says:

    Quote Originally Posted by njk View Post
    Anyway, when the utility disconnects my service from the transformer to my home (underground utilities) most of the voltage goes away.
    This implies to me that shutting off the "breaker to my entire home" didn't disconnect everything, because there was still current flowing somewhere. njk, were you referring to the master breaker for your house?
    25000-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster pool, Triton II sand filter
    750-gallon semi-public IG concrete/plaster spa, cartridge filter
    Volunteer pool caretaker for my condominium complex

  17. Back To Top    #17
    JesseWV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    North Central WV
    Posts
    526

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    That means there's still voltage/current coming from somewhere. Even at low voltage high current can be dangerous especially if you're wet and become the best route to ground.

    I think what Jason was getting at was that the power company has been there already. If it were me I'd ask for a senior technician to take another look.

    16k gal, 28'x3.5', Vinyl A/G, 1hp Pentair Dynamo 2-speed Pump, Hayward S160T Sand Filter, Intermatic HB800RCL Digital Timer, Intex 8110 SWG, TF-100 Test Kit, SpeedStir Author: Jesse's Graphical Pool Testing Log

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    Update

    In answering some of your questions...

    When I measure the voltage, one probe is placed in the water and the other is into the ground approximately 3 ft out from the pool. I have also done this by connecting one probe to a separate grounding rode more than 15 ft from the pool and the other probe in the water. Another way is to place one probe in the water and the other on a wet section of the concrete. I have noticed higher readings in the sleeves which holds the rails and ladder in the concrete. This is done by placing one probe at the bottom of the sleeve or in the ground beneath it and placing the other probe on wet concrete in the same area.

    There is no doubt voltage in the water. Engineers from the utility company have measured the same voltage but claim it is my responsibility. I have noticed a change in the voltage with the load on the utility. The voltage appears to increase as more load is put on the grid. Higher voltage readings occur mid/early evening, hot days, summer months. During the winter, I still observed readings but minimal, <.5.

    The pool is fresh water. I have been told that if it was a salt water pool, the readings would be much higher.

    Whether or not my homes main breaker is on or off, if the homes electrical, cable, and telephone ground is disconnected from the ground rod, or my utility meter is pulled from my home, the voltage is still there without any change.

    My home was built in 96 and the neutral is not corroded. In fact, the positives and neutral running underground into and from my home to the transformer were checked and looked good according to several different utility workers. Unfortunately, there is no way to check the wire unground for small breaks in the insulation.


    I have noticed that the voltage goes away when I remove the aluminum ladder from water in the deep end. There is no voltage in the water but I still get readings in the metal sleeves holding the ladder and rails in the concrete. One would say that the bonding is broke. When I connect a wire above the ground connecting all metal parts except the pool frame as if it would be underground, it had no effect. A water bond even increased the voltage.

    Just recently, I called the utility to again disconnect my home from the transformer. During this incident, there was no change in the voltage of the water until I disconnected the cable and telephone ground from my homes grounding rode. As I disconnected the telephone ground the voltage decreased in half, when I disconnected the cable it went away entirely. I then had the utility reconnect my home without the cable and telephone and the voltage came back slightly. As I connected the cable it increased and when I connected the telephone ground it doubled. I then put the cable and telephone on its own ground but it had no change to the voltage readings. I do measure about 1.5 volts coming off each of my homes electrical, cable, and telephone grounds. The voltage measured off the electrical ground rod is higher when the cable and telephone is connected to the electrical ground.

    Although I have been told by many that this problem is a neutral grounding problem on the utility side, they have also said that by creating an equal potential grid around the pool, underneath and connecting the concrete, this should correct this issue.

    I hope this answers most of your questions. Any insight would help. My pool appears to have passed all inspections and received all permits when it was built, unfortunately I am the 3rd owner.

    njk444@yahoo.com

    Feel free to email or post with your suggestions.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    It sounds like there are ground currents in you area and the pool is not properly bonded. The ground currents are probably the utilities responsibility, while the improper bonding of the pool is your responsibility. If you fix the bonding, the ground currents won't pose a problem for the pool.

    Seeing current between several feet away from the pool in the ground and parts of the pool isn't something you can do anything about. That shows that the electrical potential of the panel ground is different than the electrical potential out by the pool, which is a sign of ground currents. In theory you should be able to get the utility to fix that, but in practice many people have trouble getting utilities to admit their mistakes.

    On the other hand, there shouldn't be any current between the concrete and the ladder or the concrete and the water or between the ladder and the water. If there is current between any of those three, the bonding system is not installed correctly, which is your responsibility.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    146

    Re: Pool water recording a voltage of .5-1.8 VAC?

    If you connect a wire to the ladder (with a conducting metal clamp let's say), connect the wire to a ground rod (or other conducting rod) and then stick a rod into the ground in another location relatively far away, does that get rid of the current?

    On second thought, stick a ground rod randomly around the yard might not be a good idea if you have stray voltages. But I'm way way way out of my element here.

    Perhaps if you simple take a cord and attach it to some plumbing that goes underground and then attach it to the ladder?

    This might help to pinpoint the problem.

    On the other hand if it does pinpoint the problem, I wouldn't want to mess with whatever is causing the problem. I know you already called an electrician, but maybe call him back with this new information?
    Last edited by JasonLion; 06-11-2014 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary quote.
    25,000 Gallons Inground, Gunite
    DE, Hayward Filter
    Loud pump
    Hayward navigator cleaner, leaf hose suction

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •