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Thread: SWG not helping FC level?

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    SWG not helping FC level?

    I live in Arizona. Heat is really bad now. The last couple of days my FC has dropped. went down to .5. I ran my SWG 11 hours yesterday, same reading between .5 and 1. The only thig I have added to my pool is salt and CYA, I dont want a million chems in my pool. My brother wants to throw chlorine tablets in but I heard that's bad because it has CYA, and preservatives in it which i dont think i should have in my pool? Can I add liquid chlorine. Is that ok? here is the rest of my levels:
    FC .5
    PH 7.8
    TA 120
    CU .1
    CYA,
    SO my CYA Im having trouble reading it. the first week of install i put 1/2 gallon liquid into 4545 gallon intex ultra frame. the first reading using the TF-100 test it read low, like I got water level all the way to the top of the tube before the black dot started to get a little blurry. So I thought I was low? So I added a cup more and tested a week later and tested again. Now the tube it completely to the top and way too clear. I dont know whats going on but Im afraind to add more CYA. I think maybe I did something wrong. But according to the directions on the CYA I added the right amount the 1st tim=1/2 gal per 5000 gal pool.
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Certainly use liquid chlorine (bleach) to supplement the SWG if needed ... no problem and a good choice.

    Can you be specific about the brand of CYA you are trying to use?
    If it is indeed low (which it sounds like), then the SWG is never going to be able to generate enough FC to overcome the loss to the sun.

    Also, why do you have a copper reading? Have no disconnected the copper plates in the Intex SWG?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    I know. im gonna disconnect the cu todsy. the cya is the liquid form. maybe I did the test wrong. should I go to pool place
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    what type of chlorine do I use walmart has hth brand ssys 10 percent chlorine 90 percent other?
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    The HTH is fine ... or the Great Value 8.25% ... I think the HTH ends up being a little cheaper.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    So I tested my CYA and FC again today.
    CYA= 25, I have added a full gallon now of Natural Chemistry instant conditioner(liquid) the directions say:
    Directions for use:
    Instant Pool Water Conditioner

    Pool Start Up:

    One gallon of Instant Pool Water Conditioner will raise the conditioner/stabilizer level in 10,000 gallons (38,000L) of water by 32ppm. The recommended minimum conditioner/stabilizer level necessary to stabilize chlorine from sunlight loss is 30ppm.

    Dosage for fresh water start-up (no conditioner/stabilizer present):
    Divide pool volume in gallons by 10,000 to determine the number of gallons of Instant Pool Water Conditioner required
    1.SHAKE WELL
    2.With circulation pump running pour Instant Pool Water Conditioner into pool skimmer slowly OR pour directly into pool water, while walking around perimeter of pool. Brush to speed absorption.
    3.Rinse container with pool water and shake
    4.Pour remaining rinse solution into skimmer or pool

    Maintenance Dosage:
    1.Measure CYA level in pool using cyanuric acid test or have it tested by a professional pool products supplier
    2.If CYA level is less than 30ppm, calculate gallons of Instant Pool Water Conditioner needed using the following formula:
    4oz added to 10,000 gallons = 1ppm increase of conditioner/stabilizer level

    ***So I have added twice the amount recommended here. I started with the recommened dose of .4545 for a 18x9 intex pool of 4545 gallon pool. the CYA was not reading so I added like a cup, then it was reading a little like 20. I have been working this weekend adding little by little and still cya only got up to 25 after adding the full gallon. Is it possible I got a bad bottle of CYA? Im going to pool store to see what they read my CYA at. My FC is between .5 and 1. That also started a 0, so its raising ever so slightly.
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Here is the deal. You are likely at the appropriate level as indicated by the bottle directions. The problem is the testing methods. The strips (and most likely the pool store) results are unreliable. You are going to need a good test kit to get accurate results.
    15'x30' IG - Roman-style - 14K - Pebble Fina Classico
    Filter: Jandy CL460 Pump: Jandy Stealth SHPF1.5 SWG: Jandy AquaPure 1400 Cleaner: Jandy RayVac Test Kit: TF-100 w/SpeedStir

    Chlorine/CYA Chart----Extended Test Kit Directions----SLAM

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Quote Originally Posted by UN1017
    Here is the deal. You are likely at the appropriate level as indicated by the bottle directions. The problem is the testing methods. The strips (and most likely the pool store) results are unreliable. You are going to need a good test kit to get accurate results.
    The op originally said this in their 1st post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ame
    the first reading
    using the TF-100 test it read low, like I got water
    level all the way to the top of the tube before
    the black dot started to get a little blurry.
    So it sounds like Ame has a proper test kit.

    Ame, please don't use the pool store testing, it is incredibly inaccurate and will only create further confusion. Please post a photo and or brand + description of the liquid cya you're using.

    It sounds like the cya reading rose between testing just after the 1st addition and a week or so later? Is that correct, with no additions in-between, or did I misread you?
    How long ago did you 1st add cya, have you ever used any stabilized chlorine products, such as powder or pucks? If so, how much and what kind?
    Powdered cya takes a week to register on the test, but liquid cya should register right away. After thorough mixing that is. Both however go to work right away at sequestering and protecting CL from UV rays.

    I'm wondering if It's just simply a case of the cya liquid you're using behaving more like powdered cya, where in it takes a week to show up. Don't add anymore cya till you get this sorted out, as cya is easy add, drain to remove.

    Do make sure you're outside, back to the sun, test tube at waist level when performing the cya test. Doing it indoors, our outside in anything other than bright daylight conditions will lead to a false result.
    Also keep in mind that the test only has an accuracy of about +/-15ppm cya.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    So this is the liquid form of instant conditioner, natural chemistry. which I should be able to test within atleast a few hours. My 1st batch of CYA went in when I started the pool over a month ago. I was slow about bringing up the level over the course of the month due to travel. But my pool stayed at good FC levels between 3-5 for SWG pool. but last week FC went to 0.0 / .5 and so I started working on my CYA level and here I am. So I am using the TF-100. I did test check once inside the house. I see now thats a no-no. Not sure why does the sunlight somehow effect the reading? I will recheck today in the afternoon, back to the sun, waist level. I did check my FC last night and it is now up to 3. So it is deffinitly on the way up. Will recheck that this afternoon as well.
    Pool supply test I will NOT go and get ( the free) kind my brother keeps pushing me to get. He wont listen to me about you guys and your helpful and informative teachings!! He keeps trying to give me chlorine pucks? So far the only thing in my pool as of today is salt, CYA, and about a cup of muratic acid.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    You are doing the right thing styling away from pucks. IIRC, it only takes a puck or two to get you over the CyA limits. CYA can be hard to measure. If you added enough to get to CYA 30ppm, assume you are there and add your bleach to fix/slam/maintain your FC reading
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Not sure why does the sunlight somehow effect the reading?
    The cloudiness that is created when you add the CYA reagent is more reflective in indirect sunlight.

    That usually results in the dot being obscured more easily than it does in indoor light. So a CYA result of 30 indoors might be 40 outdoors. Try both and see what you find out.
    Dave S.
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Don't forget, CYA testing can be done, yo-yo style where you squirt it into the test tube and then you pour put it back into the squirt bottle and do the test again... as many times as you want to get a good reading. I yo-yo the test about several times each time I test until I get three consistent readings.

    So, you could do it three times inside and three times outside (with the same solution) to see the differences. This is one of the hardest tests to get consistent readings.

    There is no need to re-make the testing solution for each test.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    The op originally said this in their 1st post.
    Don't know how I missed that. When I saw that Cu level and then when there was mention of going to the pool store I figured Ame was still using strips as in previous posts.
    15'x30' IG - Roman-style - 14K - Pebble Fina Classico
    Filter: Jandy CL460 Pump: Jandy Stealth SHPF1.5 SWG: Jandy AquaPure 1400 Cleaner: Jandy RayVac Test Kit: TF-100 w/SpeedStir

    Chlorine/CYA Chart----Extended Test Kit Directions----SLAM

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Quote Originally Posted by UN1017
    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    The op originally said this in their 1st post.
    Don't know how I missed that. When I saw that Cu level and then when there was mention of going to the pool store I figured Ame was still using strips as in previous posts.
    No worries at all mate! No worries!
    The informational overload will get ya... better watch out, maybe use Bing? That should solve all the overload problems.
    Noooottttt! HAHA :wicked:
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Glad to hear that the FC is coming back up, also, fantastic advise so far on the CYA testing. Doing it both indoors and outdoors, plus the pour back and retest methods are GRRREEAAATT!

    Gives you a better understanding of how it works.

    Also, since your FC levels have dropped so low, I would advise doing a SLAM. See pool school.
    Likely you'll only have to do it for a day or so, maybe not even that long.
    But you need to be sure you have killed any organics that got a foothold when the FC was taking a nap. Stuff that hides, that you can't see and waits to pounce down the road. Causing problems, headaches, eating chlorine, algae bloom, etc....
    No fun, be on the safe side, kill it now, kill it early while It's easy to do.

    And yeah, tell your brother you're the sister.... you know best. Watch his face.
    Also, watch his face once your pool is so sparkly that it looks like it has no water in it!
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    OkIm gonna try the SLAM process, Where can I find SWG shock level recommendations?
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Don't use your SWG for the SLAM. It can't keep up and you'll just be wasting it and time. Use liquid chlorine.


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    ok so ill turn off my swg during the process, and still looking for Slam shock levels.....in pool school....
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    Use this chart: pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

    SLAM=> SHOCK Level And Maintain. You're looking to bring the pool to a "shock" level for your CYA.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: SWG not helping FC level?

    One last question about my CYA choice, The liquid Natural Chemistry CYA, Test today showing 50 on the rise after adding approx a pint, So im going to add a little more liquid. and recheck today before sun goes down. But Im concerned that the CYA i've added is too much according to the directions stated previously. Natural chemistry tech says ok to use taylor cya test then say dont add more cya liquid test maynot work. So now What? as of now Im just gonna add more CYA liquid and bring it to 70. Unless you guys think I should stop adding. I was trusting my test. I thought maybe My 1st bottle of CYA liquid may have been bad, since afer adding a full gallon and CYA level was like 20ish.
    Intex Ultra Frame 18 x 9 x 52 rectangle. 4545 Gallons.
    12 in Krystal Clear™ Sand Filter Pump w/ GFCI.
    Krystal Clear Saltwater System™ w/ GFCI.
    TF-100 Taylor testing.
    K-1000 Taylor testing.

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