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Thread: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

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    Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    My family is seeing a few shocks. I did a search here on shocking pools and got lots of threads which I have read in their entirety.
    I'm seeing Around a volt from a railing pocket at our stairs to the water. No Amps measurable. Not mili not micro, nothing.
    I see about .3 to .4 volts from a stair pocket with stairs in the water to the water.

    My wife has called and talked with the pool builder and he seemed to recall the details of the pool. He was sure that everything was bonded at the time of install which was 98. They didn't do rebar in the concrete...they did a mesh under the concrete, but swear the pockets and light niche are bonded together with the rest of the equipment.
    I don't see any way they have the water bonded though. The pump is bonded, but is that enough?

    Pool builder did mention that they have the paddle?? that goes in the skimmer, but that means cutting concrete and digging up 150ish feet of lawn to run wire back to where everything else is bonded.
    Now I saw the http://www.waterbonder.com/products.html and it looks like it would work to bond the water (and be right where everything else is bonded).
    At $120 however I wonder if there is another type of metal that would stand up to pool water??
    I can go to a local supply store and get something similar for under $10 made out of black steel or galvanized steel.

    I have tried turning off all the power (main breaker) that I have control of.
    I have called the power company since in my investigation I have noticed that the ground for our electric service is loose. I will ask them about the stray voltage in the area, but who knows how helpful they'll be.

    So I guess my main question today is what type of metal is suitable to be used as a "waterbonder"?
    25k gal vinyl AquaRite T-15

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Do you have a heater? That would bond the water.

    You need copper, high quality stainless steel (marine grade is good), titanium, or bronze. Pretty much anything else will corrode eventually. Of those, copper is rather sensitive to low PH, but not a problem when the PH is always 7.0 or higher.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    TFP Guide

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Bond your heater. There should be a lug on it somewhere for this purpose. If not, clamp a wire to the hear exchanger and run it to the bonding lug on your pump.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Most of the time the water is bonded via the light bezel. If the light niche is bonded and the extra ground from the niche to the deck box is installed, as well as the light ground wire, the light bezel should be bonding the water to the bonding grid.
    32K gal, gunite, French Gray DB, IntelliFlo VF, IntelliFlo, WhisperFlo, Quad DE 100 filter, IntelliTouch, IC-60 SWG, IntelliChem, Dolphin M5

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Yes I do have a heater. I was just thinking about that too. It's original and rather rusty...I wonder if I would be able to re-bond it in a location that is a bit less rusty.
    I'll look for the heat exchanger and see what type of clamp I need.

    As for the deck box...not sure what that means. I assume it has something to do with the light wiring, but all I have see is two conductor cable to the switch for the light. No ground at all. Just hot and neutral.

    Thanks for the replies!
    25k gal vinyl AquaRite T-15

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Low voltage lighting often doesn't need to be bonded.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Do you have a stainless steel ladder? You can ground the water there as well. If you have a concrete deck you just need to saw cut it and lay the bonding wire in the groove. You can then just excavate down to the bonding cable in the utility trench just outside the deck and connect it to the grid there. Definitely clean up the connection at the heater but if that doesn't work you can use the ladder or put a bonder in the skimmer and connect it up to the grid the same way.

    I would also make sure the power company gets out there to fix their ground as well. I have read about stray current from exposed wires in well pumps or bad grounds at utility poles causing shocks in pools.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Quote Originally Posted by diyindux
    I would also make sure the power company gets out there to fix their ground as well. I have read about stray current from exposed wires in well pumps or bad grounds at utility poles causing shocks in pools.
    Me too. From the lineman who found the issue. I'll be pressing them for info when they show up tomorrow.
    25k gal vinyl AquaRite T-15

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    The railing anchor should be bonded itself. You maay be able to switch to a coated railing that doesn't require bonding if you aren't getting shocks from the concrete itself.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    That is something I was investigating tonight and if I wet the concrete then put my hand on the wet concrete and one hand in the pool I do feel it where I have a cut on my hand. This is anywhere around the pool touching just wet concrete and the water.
    Have not made it to the heater to try and bond to heat exchanger yet. Not really sure what I'm looking for in that regard. Need to search for the manual to try and figure that one out.
    25k gal vinyl AquaRite T-15

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    If any part of the metal heat exchanger is connected to the bonding grid then you are all set.
    DIY 28x38x18 Full L, 26,000 gallons, Pentair VS Pump, SWG, CCP 420 Filter, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400HD Heater, EasyTouch Controller

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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    Quote Originally Posted by diyindux
    If any part of the metal heat exchanger is connected to the bonding grid then you are all set.
    Well the shell is bonded and I can get continuity from the screws on the heater to the ground rod, but yet taking a wire from the ground rod where all the equipment is bonded all the way to the pool and tossing it in results in less of a shock.
    I'll have to dismantle the heater (raypak 2100) to find the exchanger and see if I can do an additional bond as right now it really seems the water is still not bonded properly/enough.
    25k gal vinyl AquaRite T-15

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Bonding issue...ways to bond the water??

    I really think very little of your installation was bonded properly at all. No ground rod is specified as part of the bonding system in the US, especially not a separate ground rod from the electrical service. That ground rod could be causing more problems.

    In 98, there was no acceptable mesh available for bonding the slab, so a non-rebar pour couldn't be made to code. More than likely your water is incidentally bonded by a ladder or the light, assuming they are properly bonded themselves.

    The rust on your light fixture is probably a result of the stray voltage you are experiencing, and you need to get to the root of that even if you eliminate the shock you feel in the pool.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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