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Thread: What happened to my liner??

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    What happened to my liner??

    As I said in the thread I posted about hard plumbing my pool, I thought I had a leak. I was having to add about an inch of water a day. It was suggested I do the bucket test, even though an inch of water a day, with a solar cover on most of the day seems, to say the least, excessive. Well, I did the bucket test, and, as expected, it failed miserably. So for the past 2 days, I have been diving in the pool looking for leaks. And wow, have I found leaks. First thing I found was a smallish tear, less than 1/4 inch long. I patched that. As I was diving, I also noticed probably at least 30 other small holes, all pinhole size or maybe just a tiny bit bigger. I am in the process of patching them. They are all on the bottom of the pool where the floor meets the wall. Some are on the wall, some are on the floor. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing these? Also, does anyone have any idea how I could get a picture of them, without an underwater camera? The liner and pool is maybe 6 or 7 years old. I never let pH get below 7.2, so the liner shouldn't be brittle from low pH. Sand bed. Also, I am running out of patch from my old patch kit, do you have any recommendations for a patch kit? I'm looking at a Boxer kit on Amazon, which is the same I have been using, only double the size. Thanks for any help.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    I sure don't know - have you inspected Wanda to see if there is anything sharp she could be walking around the pool? Are ones on the wall higher than where she gets?
    POOL: Intex ultra new in 2014 (32 x 16 x 52) (seasonal; on concrete pad covered with 1.5" extruded or whatever foam insulation sheets - ugly, but comfy); added a through-wall skimmer; I add salt for feel. EQUIPMENT: Pentair SuperFlo pump (1HP, 2SPD); Pentair cartridge filter (200 sq. ft); Pentair MasterTemp natural gas heater (400,000 btu) Climate/Location: Eastern Nebraska

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Maybe one of those cheap plastic encased underwater cameras you can get at the drugstore for cheap? Sorry about your problems. And I have seen some posts/reviews that said Wanda ws a Slasher! I pretty much think they're bogus though--didn't keep me from buying a Diver Dave model, just haven't used it much yet.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    It could be insects under the liner, it could be nutgrass, or it could be something associated with the pool cleaner. Do you have a sand cove or a foam cove?
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Never thought of looking at Wanda. I don't think that is the problem, but it won't hurt to check. Just looked on Amazon, and they have an underwater camera for $10. I forgot they still make disposable cameras. And it still uses film . Sand cove. I'll order the camera when I order the patch kit probably. This wouldn't bother me too much if my fill water wasn't so iron rich. Every time I add about 2 inches of water, the pool starts to get green. Oh well, hopefully by the end of this year I will be able to replace the liner. When you say insects, do you have any idea what type of insects it could be?
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    This thread thinks it is due to termites.
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    That original post sounds exactly like my problem. That is an interesting theory, and certainly sounds possible. They mention termites are attracted during dry spells. That certainly isn't the case here. We had 12" of rain last month. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of bug living under there.
    Forgot to mention that I confirmed they are in fact holes (not just stains or something) by squirting some dye around them. On the bigger holes you can really see it get sucked in, but the smaller holes you can tell are leaking also.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    When I do leak detections on AG pools I know I'm either going to find one or 2 big holes or basically run into your problem where half of the perimeter of the pool is riddled with pin holes in the cove. I have yet to find a positive reason for this. One thing I do know though it has never happened on a quality liner. For example there have been pools where we replaced a liner that was riddled with holes with a liner made from our local liner company. The holes didn't reoccur so maybe it is insects or maybe it's just the bargain reprocessed vinyl they use on many cheap AG liners. Maybe one day someone needs to put some of the holes under a microscope and see if they are tears, chew marks, or punctures etc.
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
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    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    I feel a little better now knowing that this is a common problem. I got the pool from Branch Brook (Namco) and can say, fairly certainly, that it, while not a bad pool at all, is not exactly the highest quality. Come the end of the season if it is still leaking bad I will hopefully (money permitting) be able to drain it down and put in a new liner. This time I will be certain to go with a quality one.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Here's another theory on pin holes in the cove area (mine). I think they could be caused because that's got to be the area of greatest stress. All that water pressure on the bottom up to that point and the liner being stretched and fitted at the top?
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Come this winter, I will probably replace the liner with a good one and treat the ground for termites. Does anyone have suggestions on where to get a liner from? I'd be willing to pay more for a quality liner. I also would like to go with a tan one, for 3 reasons. 1) They are different. 2) They look nice. 3) It will hide all of my iron stains. Based on that does anyone have any recommendations?
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    So am I wasting my time? Every time I get in the pool, I put on my snorkel and start patching. I patched 7 holes today, I believe. I think some of them are new, and weren't there yesterday. I think the leak(s) slowed down a little bit, from about 1" a day to 3/4" a day. I'm out of patch kit, so I will need to order another one. I don't know why I am doing this, I guess I just want to try to limit my water use, to limit the iron. I know I am really just postponing the inevitable, hopefully it will last to the end of the season.

    Kevin, when you find a liner like mine, do you attempt to fix it or do you just say it's time to get a new liner?

    I think I am leaning toward the fatigue theory,and that if left unchecked long enough, it would eventually turn into a tear.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    I saved the old liner when we replaced ours, I figured that if the new one started leaking, glue wouldn't be hard to find, and I'd have a ready supply of patch material.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    That is a good idea, except I am hoping to replace with a tan liner. Blue patch on tan liner might not blend in too well.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Sometimes the customer wants me to patch the pool, but it's time consuming which drives up the bill. I've also given the option of, since all the holes are in the cove and are usually isolated to a certain section of the pools perimeter I give the customer a bottle of glue and a sheet of vinyl and tell him to patch the holes from point A to point B. Sometimes making tiny dime sized patches or sometimes large bands that cover the whole cove itself.
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
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    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Good news, because of all of my patching, I seem to have only lost about 1/4 inch of water last night. Now I just have to wait for my patch kit to come, and hopefully I can reduce that even more.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    The liner probably isn't going to be replaced until May next year, so that gives me plenty of time to find a good deal on one. Now, I have some questions:
    1) Does anyone make a tan liner for a 24' AGP? I saw a picture of one for an inground pool on another thread, and it looked so nice. I just cannot seem to find one for my pool. I don't know what type of liner I have, so don't worry about that yet. Just let me know if one exists.
    2) What is a good company to buy from? I would like the next liner to last more than 7 years (or is that an unreasonable expectation?). Also, how thick of a liner should I get? I see they range from at least 20 mil to 25 mil. I think mine is a 20 mil right now.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnN
    The liner probably isn't going to be replaced until May next year, so that gives me plenty of time to find a good deal on one. Now, I have some questions:
    1) Does anyone make a tan liner for a 24' AGP? I saw a picture of one for an inground pool on another thread, and it looked so nice. I just cannot seem to find one for my pool. I don't know what type of liner I have, so don't worry about that yet. Just let me know if one exists.
    2) What is a good company to buy from? I would like the next liner to last more than 7 years (or is that an unreasonable expectation?). Also, how thick of a liner should I get? I see they range from at least 20 mil to 25 mil. I think mine is a 20 mil right now.

    Any print you see can be used in your pool. The only problem is that is may be more expensive. On occasion I sell an inground liner for an above ground pool. It just costs more because the material is better. I deal with http://www.poconopoolproducts.com They currently have 2 brown liners. I wouldn't go with anything thicker than 20 mil. I think 27 mil is more of a marketing gimmick as the liners don't last any longer. Plus it makes the liner a lot heavier and that can be a problem when installing on an above ground pool.

    Also don't forget brown liners, when filled; tend to lose the reddish hues and appear more grey. This also makes the water appear to have a noticeable teal/blueish hue
    Attached Images Attached Images
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Thanks for the link. I really like the water color in that picture you posted. The other thing I like about the brown liner is that it will hide the iron stains that are inevitably going to show up. I'll have to contact Pocono Pool Products and see how much their liners cost. But since you recommend them, I would be willing to spend a little more.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: What happened to my liner??

    Oh, one last question. Actually it may end up being a few questions. My current liner is a beaded liner. I have heard that it is easier to install an overlap liner. With overlap liners, it is impossible to get a tile line straight, which both of the brown liners have. First, can I change my pool to use an overlap liner instead of beaded, and second, is it really a lot easier to do an overlap liner? If it is, I guess I will probably go with one of those fish liners.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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