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Thread: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

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    Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    So, my pool is beautiful, I have been using the BBB method for a out 15\16 months...I live in the middle of a hundred acre peanut field that is now on a 7-10 day cycle of fungicide spraying. Last year, the pool turned a strange color green once and nothing regular helped so I finally had a phosphate tests run (3000 ppm, yes thousand)....added the phosphate remover and all was well...so now this year, because of all the rain, the spray cycle has started again and within 36 hours of spraying, I have the same strange green, test yesterday was 500 ppm....
    I can't move, and I can't complain...it's what feeds me! So, I was wondering if here is another remedy other than the pool stores phosphate remover product. All help is appreciated!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Post up a full set of test results. The phosphate are meaningless if you have adequate FC in the water.
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    You don't say what size or type of pool, but is it possible to cover it during "spraying season" during the day?
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Phosphates are measured in parts per billion, not ppm. 3, 000 ppb is 3 ppm.

    Most likely, the clearing after using the phosphate remover was coincidental. Chlorine should break down the contaminating substance. Pool First Aid (an enzyme) might be helpful.

    Can you post the ingredients of the fungicide?

    Does the fungicide have any sort of dye in it (used to help identify sprayed areas)?

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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    It was ppb. 28,000 gal round, vinyl.
    TC 5
    FC 8.5
    CC .5
    Ph 7.8
    TA 110
    CH 260
    CYA 40
    Spray was Bravo

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    The math does not add up there, TC is total Chlorine and equals FC+CC
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Your algae bloom could very well be tied to the spraying, but I don't think phosphates are to blame. There's got to be some carrier for the spray - something soapy or oily - and that probably consumed the FC...which let the algae grow.

    If I lived there, I'd elevate the FC as soon as I knew they were spraying.
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    It looks like, from the application data sheet, that the carrier is probably water, but it also implies that some surfactant can be used with Bravo.

    Bravo contains propylene glycol. I wonder if that contributed to your problem?
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    I know there is a surfactant and probably another chemical added to the tank mix, trying to get my son run down to get exact application he is using.I know something is put in to foam as a row marker.Sprayed yesterday, waiting to evaluate...Will post answers when I get them.

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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    I'm no farmer, but if I were betting it would more likely be an Ammonia/Nitrate compound. It usually is around here...Cotton, Melons, Peanuts and that is usually what I hear about and see. Whatever the case you can beat it with proper chlorination.
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    I read the Msds -- nitrogen, carbon and hydogen chloride are by products. Considered toxic to aquatic life. Obviously not to algae
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Not entirely related, but I found this article about phosphates that was a line of inquiry I'd like to see taken further I share it here since it ay be of interest to the original poster:
    http://www.mcgrayel.com/files/Phosphate ... _Myths.pdf

    I personally would like to have seen them test much higher levels...but hey, I suppose I could do that myself
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Frankly, I see no validity in that report.

    The issue I cannot get around is McGrayel.com is the purveyor of a variety of chemistry additives that promise you the moon (the same old "magic bullets" the pool store wants you to buy). I am sure they have a scale remover that does not contain phosphonic acid.

    I have never tested my pool for phosphates, never will, nor will I suggest someone else do it.

    My pool gets algae because I fail to keep adequate chlorine levels....period. K.I.S.S.
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    ^I thought it was interesting in that it showed how little blow-in sources contributed.

    I realize he is likely trying to rationalize the sale of non-phosphonic acid sequestrates, which I think folks know don't typically work

    I keep my chlorine levels targeted on the higher end of the cyan/ch chart here, and I've not (touch wood) had algae...and I know what to do if I ever do But I am mildly suspicious that the spent orthophosphates (we're talking much much higher levels than typical...eg 25,000 ppb) possibly exacerbate staining despite the sequestrate and low ph. There've been a few posters that seemed to have experienced that, but its rare. Jury is still out for me, though generally I agree that most of the phosphate-pool-product shilling s voodoo...still might be the teensiest bit of value to the underpinnings of it!
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Phosphates are nothing to be concerned about in pools.
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Michelle W,

    Googling "Chlorothalonil Algae" it appears that this product can create algae blooms, which is the main ingredient in "Bravo Weatherstik".

    In most cases this was as "Wikipedia" states:

    "The loss of these herbivores and plants freed the algae from predation and competition, which eventually resulted in algal blooms that were similar to the effects of eutrophication."

    But that reasoning is unlikely in your case, as you had virtually no living organisms to kill in your pool.

    From looking at other papers it does not seem to affect the Phosphate levels to any degree of importance. So you could rule out Phosphates, and even at levels of 3,500 ppb sufficient Free Chlorine levels will control any effects it might have on algae.

    However, if you go through the Google list you will note that there have been reports of elevated nitrate levels as mentioned by "Brushpup", this mighty be the reason for a light algae bloom, with this product. You can test for this with an inexpensive aquarium nitrate test kit. These nitrate levels, according to research papers, seem to build up slowly but surely over a period of time.

    Nitrates can be controlled in a number of ways the two easiest ways are, by draining but maybe you do not wish to do that, or secondly by raising your chlorine level to the high side of the maintenance dose (but below shock levels) in combination with a slightly lower pH of say 7.6 or 7.4, this makes the chlorine more effective.

    With a CyA level of 40 ppm, a level of 7.0 ppm of Free Chlorine, should do the trick, but no higher than 15.0 ppm, as shock level is 16, for daily maintenance. To clear the present bloom you will need to shock the pool.

    I am not stating it is Nitrates for sure, you will need to test for them. Higher levels of chlorine should do the trick, if they do not I would ask the local agricultural office to test a sample of your water to see what is in it.

    Finally you reported your FC level as 8.5 and your TC level as 5, that as stated by "Isaac-1" cannot be, "Isaac-1" stated " The math does not add up there, TC is total Chlorine and equals FC+CC".

    I am guessing that your TC was 8.5, and your FC (Free Chlorine) was 5, please double check your results before you do a shock process, as my CC calculation could be a wrong guess This would give you a Combined Chlorine of 3.5, using this formula "TC - FC = CC". As stated in this site's basic pool chemistry section (bold done by me):

    http://www.poolcalculator.com/chemistry.html#FC

    CC - Combined Chlorine

    Combined chlorine is an intermediate breakdown product that is created in the process of sanitizing the pool. CC causes the "chlorine" smell many people associate with chlorine pools. If CC is above 0.5 you should shock your pool. CC indicates that there is something in the water that the FC is in the process of breaking down. In an outdoor pool, CC will normally stay at or near zero as long as you maintain an appropriate FC level and the pool gets some direct sunlight.


    Your CC level, if it is 3.5, is too high, and therefore you will need to shock, preferably with liquid bleach, and sufficient amounts of muriatic acid to compensate for the pH rise created by the bleach.

    Each 1 ppm addition of liquid bleach requires 1.8 oz of muriatic acid to compensate for pH rise, based on 10,000 gals

    Here are Taylor's instructions for doing the test with their R-0001, R-0002, and R-0003 chemicals:

    Chlorine (Free, Combined, Total) Test
    1. Rinse and fill small comparator tube to 9 mL mark with water to be tested.
    2. Add 5 drops R-0001 and 5 drops R-0002. Cap and invert to mix.
    3. Match color with color standard.* Record as parts per million (ppm) free chlorine (FC).
    4. Add 5 drops R-0003. Cap and invert to mix.
    5. Match color immediately. Record as ppm total chlorine (TC).
    6. Subtract FC from TC. Record as ppm combined chlorine (CC). Formula: TC - FC = CC.

    Most importantly I hope you are doing the chemical testing yourself with a good kit such as the one sold by this site or a Taylor's kit, just make sure the chemicals are not out of date by calling either supplier. Pool store tests can be very unreliable.

    Good luck
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Thanks, this all makes since and I have some background with nitrates and their use...so I get it. I do have the complete Taylor kit and do my own testing. I started the shock process tonight with bleach, will report tomorrow. Thanks, I just needed to talk this thru with someone other than a salesman.

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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Michelle W,

    Great.

    Good luck with the shock, and let us all know how it went.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    It is the SLAM process
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    Re: Phosphates - 100 acre peanut field

    Quote Originally Posted by smallpooldad
    Nitrates can be controlled in a number of ways the two easiest ways are, by draining but maybe you do not wish to do that, or secondly by raising your chlorine level to the high side of the maintenance dose (but below shock levels) in combination with a slightly lower pH of say 7.6 or 7.4, this makes the chlorine more effective.
    Chlorine won't do anything to nitrates. And, I don't think that nitrates are the issue here anyway.

    Michelle W, if you can find a detailed ingredient list for what was sprayed, then we might be better able to help figure out what is causing the problem.

    Did the fungicide solution contain copper?

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