Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Ignorant

  1. Back To Top    #1
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Ignorant

    I had Hayward Ecostar and new cartridge filter installed. Save $700 going with a local PG. but he did not install suction or return valves. So when I clean the strainer basket I cannot fill the reservoir with water and it runs dry until it primes. Bad idea, right? I need to get him back here and install the valves. I feel very stupid.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Ignorant

    How long did it take to prime? You should not need a valve unless the pump is way above the pool.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    Pump is ground level, pool surface must be 6-12 inches below. But when I empty the strainer basket it falls below the inlet and water level takes 20 seconds or so to get above inlet and a couple minutes or more to reach full prime, to get to few or little airspace or bubbles. And when run at low rpm the bubbles and airspace reappear.

    Problem or not?

    Ecostar manual asks for a suction and return valve for this purpose
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Isaac-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    6,711

    Re: Ignorant

    It sounds like you may have a suction side air leak, have you lubricated the pump basket o-ring with silicone lubricant? Are the pump basket drain plugs screwed in all the way?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    I would think so. Brand new install, no mention or lubrication or drain plugs in install instructions.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    PG is willing to install valve if I buy the parts. He is suggesting a check valve, only on the suction side. Hayward manual speaks of closing off valves on both suction and return side. Check valves are seemingly twice as expensive as regular valves.

    Do I need

    Check valve only on suction side?
    Check valve on suction and return sides?
    Regular valve only on suction side?
    Regular valve on suction and return side?


    I think the answer is regular valve on suction and return but need help from you experts!
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Ignorant

    You should not need any valves ... they are not the problem with struggling to prime ... especially for a giant Ecostar pump. Now if you said the pump was 5+ feet above the water, then a valve on the suction side could be helpful.

    All the Jandy valves, 2-way, 3-way, check should be very similarly priced.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Deep East Texas
    Posts
    76

    Re: Ignorant

    If you have air in the basket during normal pump operation the valves aren't going to fix it. It still sounds like a suction side air leak. Start with the simple fixes mentioned above.
    In ground 25,000 gallon - vinyl liner - Sand filter - residential pool
    Also maintain two commercial 190,000 gallon competitive indoor bromine facilities -9x Sand filters

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    Do not understand. The manual clearly states to fill the basket with water after you empty it. With no valves the water runs out. So for a while it runs with only a little water until full prime is reached. No air on higher rpm, some small air space on low speed, like 1200-1500 rpm.

    I am not alarmed from what I read here about some small air space at low RPM but am worried about the time it takes to prime because I cannot fill the basket like the manual says.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Deep East Texas
    Posts
    76

    Re: Ignorant

    Pouring water in the basket allows the pipes to fill up half way or more aiding with priming. It won't all stay in the pump baske it just helps the self priming pump along.
    In ground 25,000 gallon - vinyl liner - Sand filter - residential pool
    Also maintain two commercial 190,000 gallon competitive indoor bromine facilities -9x Sand filters

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    So the Hayward manual is being overly cautious mentioning valves?

    If I am sold on having the valves, do I need check valves or just good quality valves I turn manually? Seems like check valve are just automatic valves to keep water from draining back if the system depresssurizes.

    And, just checked again, zero bubbles or air space at 3200 rpm, small bubbles at 1700 rpm, small air space, about the size of a slice of bacon, at 1300rpm
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  12. Back To Top    #12

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Deep East Texas
    Posts
    76

    Re: Ignorant

    Someone else can probably speak to which is best. I think every valve causes some water resistance so you would want one that creates the least. I have used Jandy two way handle valves for many years with no up keep and very reliable.
    In ground 25,000 gallon - vinyl liner - Sand filter - residential pool
    Also maintain two commercial 190,000 gallon competitive indoor bromine facilities -9x Sand filters

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    So the Hayward manual is being overly cautious mentioning valves?

    If I am sold on having the valves, do I need check valves or just good quality valves I turn manually? Seems like check valve are just automatic valves to keep water from draining back if the system depresssurizes.

    And, just checked again, zero bubbles or air space at 3200 rpm, small bubbles at 1700 rpm, small air space, about the size of a slice of bacon, at 1300rpm
    Can anyone give me advice/opinion on check valve vs. manual valve on return and suction side? I am sorry if I am tedious on this issue but I want to do the right thing and also the most cost effective thing to protect my new pump.

    Thanks
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Ignorant

    The right thing would be to figure out what is causing the difficulty priming and fixing it. You should not need a valve.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    308

    Re: Ignorant

    For some reason I am having trouble communicating. It does not have trouble priming. But when I empty the strainer basket the water all drains out and it cannot be filled full so the pump necessarily runs for a time without full basket of water. Is this normal or harmful? The manual makes it sound harmful. At higher rpm there is no air, not at all. At low rpm there is a small space but not bubbles. At this point I am more concerned about the less than full water startup than the little air space at low rpm.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Ignorant

    That is normal if it is only few minutes.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •