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Thread: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last posts..

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    Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last posts..

    I have a 13k gallon saltwater play pool. This spring I drained it, acid washed, and refilled it, as it had gotten horribly green. Most of the summer it stayed beautiful and crystal clear. I also had a pool guy, however, I had to let him go.

    For the next couple of weeks I was able to keep the pool looking nice, however, the monsoon season hit, the pool got a lot of debris in it, and started turning green. Not as bad as before, but bad enough. At this time the pump and water flow all seemed fine.

    I cleaned the trap in the pool deck where stuff collects. I then went to clean the leaf trap. It was missing -- apparently the pool guy cleaned it at the side of the house, and never put it back. That's where I found it. I put it back in, and then cleaned the basket right by the pump. Considering how much debris had been floating on the pool surface (skimmed 98% of it...) I had suspected more stuff in the traps.

    I opened up the canister thing that has all the filters in it, and cleaned all of those really nicely, several times (4 total)

    Now, however, the pump pressure on the canister, which previously showed around 25, is only showing around 4psi. I suspect some of the debris that never got stuck in the trap, is instead stuck in a pipe somewhere, before the pump?

    I've reached in and felt for debris in the impeller but it seems fine. I suspect something is stuck between the pool drain/skimmer lines and the pump, but have no idea how to get at it/clear it. If I switch the valve between skimmer and main drain, there is no difference in PSI. The leaf trap and pump basket are not filling completely with water -- maybe 60% or so full.

    Any next steps appreciated. Should I try running without the filters? Perhaps they're bad?
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Welcome to tfp, AZCardsFan

    How is your flow at the pool return?

    Does you gauge go to zero when the pump is off?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Pool return - like the features? Hardly anything. Barely operable.

    The gauge does go down to zero.

    When I start up the pump I have always had to bleed off the air by the pressure gauge. It won't even fill up to do that now. Air releases but no water ever comes out. This tells me it's before the pump...

    I alternated the valve from drain to slimmer and back. Saw no changes in how much the leaf canister/etc filled up.

    I'm at hardware store to get a drain clearing bladder now to try that...?
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    If you had a blockage on the suction side that could reduce your flow. Another possibility is air getting in on the suction side. This seems likely because of your description of air in the filter. Most common causes is too low of pool level causing air to be sucked in the skimmer, a stuck skimmer weir also starving the pump, leaking pump basket gasket, leaking pump drain plug, or any other joint on the suction side that could be leaking.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    You could try running a Drain King backwards through the suction line to see if that unclogs something ... or at least will check for good flow.

    I have never had luck feeling for debris in the impeller and many members have found it clogged up when they pull the pump off to inspect it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    If you had a blockage on the suction side that could reduce your flow. Another possibility is air getting in on the suction side. This seems likely because of your description of air in the filter. Most common causes is too low of pool level causing air to be sucked in the skimmer, a stuck skimmer weir also starving the pump, leaking pump basket gasket, leaking pump drain plug, or any other joint on the suction side that could be leaking.
    The pool level is fine, the skimmer is not sucking air. Skimmer weir? I checked/tightened, cleaned o-rings, reseated everything previously to no avail....

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    You could try running a Drain King backwards through the suction line to see if that unclogs something ... or at least will check for good flow.

    I have never had luck feeling for debris in the impeller and many members have found it clogged up when they pull the pump off to inspect it.
    Don't have a drain king, but picked up the drain cleaning bladder at home depot -- $11.99 for the medium, should've gotten the large... but the medium did the trick.

    Put it in the leaf basket, valve pointed to skimmer: let it run for a few. Removed, repointed valve to main drain, let it run for a few.

    Unfortunately, at this point, the bladder did not go far enough into the pipe, expanded partially out of the pipe, and instead of cutting the water flow, I increased it and WHOOPS! it burst.

    However, after putting the lid back on the leaf trap, and turning the system back on -- everything was back to normal!

    So, at the cost of $12, the system seems to be running like normal again. Yay.
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Sounds like your problem is fixed. Is there any air in your pump basket now?

    The skimmer weir is the door the covers the pool opening of the skimmer and tilts towards the skimmer when the pump is one creating a thin high velocity flow over it, therefore improving the skimming action.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Well... It ran great for a while, 20psi. Down to 12 now but features and all working about normal. At one point had a lot of junk in the basket - the loosened clog.

    Initially the canisters had no air at all in them. There is a little air now. I suspect a small clog has reformed? Alternately, the filters, though they've been cleaned a lot lately... But the pool has had a lot of smaller particles also. So maybe that's it? It perhaps both?
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Not sure if I understand you question above, but if the filter is dirty, then the pressure would go up not down.

    You may want to check the impeller for blockage. Make sure you do this with the breaker off.

    If you are getting air in the pump basket, then it is likely a suction side leak and the air is causing the pressure to drop..
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    I would suggest checking the impeller as well, by taking the motor off the pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Bad pump?

    Mod Edit: I moved this post to your previous thread since they are about the same issue. linen, forum moderator

    I had a previous question that may provide useful history here post544355.html#p544355 -- or maybe not.

    So, I decided to tackle one issue, when another one arose, which complicated my troubleshooting issue.

    I wanted to order "Hayward GLX-FLO-RP 15-Feet Cable Flow Switch Assembly" off Amazon, as this spring, when trimming, I cut the wire. I spliced the wire back together, and it still gave a "No Flow" signal to the panel. So, when I found that on amazon I wanted to open up the pool control panel to make sure it looked like a phone plugin (RJ11?) cable into the panel. Took out the 3 screws, and sure enough, that's what it was, so I intended to order it.

    Put it back together. Due to the weather/debris, I decided to run the pump a bit to clear the pool up, skim, clean out the baskets, etc. Click the Filter button on the hayward control panel: a click at the panel (the relay?) and nothing else. No sound from the pump whatsover. The lights and other features are working, the panel seems fine, but the pump didn't even emit a hum...

    bad pump? Ways to confirm?

    I wish I'd ran it before I opened up that panel. I reopened it, and saw no loose wires/connections. I was incredibly careful and never actually *touched* anything inside of it. I switched the circuit breaker back/forth a few times. Still nada.

    So, any direction would be appreciated before I order a replacement... I'd rather not spend $396 if I can avoid it.
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    Re: Pump / flow problems

    Ok. Since the pump came on before, and is now completely inoperable, it seemed like a separate issue... the prior fix was a clog in the line, this seems different.
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    Now pump seems to have failed? Help?

    Anyone?
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last pos

    Yes this issue does sound different. Anyway you could direct wire the pump to see if it is working so that you can isolate the problem?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last pos

    Any tips on direct wiring the pump? Never done that. Didn't see an article up on it?
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last pos

    I am just thinking of temporarily wiring it to bypass whatever control you are running the pump off (is it the swg controller?) just to see if it is the pump or the controller.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last pos

    I didn't have a chance to try that yet. I did remove the pump and confirm the impeller was free of obstruction and spun easily.

    Is there a diagram of how the pump sleeves on a Hayward super Ii 1.5 horsepower pump go on? There's a white one that I can't quite tell which way it goes back on.
    13k Gallon Salt IG pool with cartride filters and pebble tec.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Round 2: Pump / flow problems - pump dead? See last pos

    Does this video help? http://youtu.be/mpJLp3oWDGU
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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